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Old June 12, 2013, 08:42 AM   #1
FAS1
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No Kids - I Don't Need To Secure My Gun

Really? That's probably what this man thought until his buddy visited with his 4 year old son unexpectedly. Apparently happened within minutes and the father was a Special Forces Veteran.

4-year-old accidentally shoots, kills father
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Old June 12, 2013, 08:46 AM   #2
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A very, very difficult way to learn that all guns should always be secured.
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Old June 12, 2013, 09:02 AM   #3
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Four adults home in that small residence and the kid gets the pistol and shoots the father? I don't buy it.
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Old June 12, 2013, 09:09 AM   #4
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If there was a background check for stupid then background checks might actually do some good.
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Old June 12, 2013, 09:11 AM   #5
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Thats sad.
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Old June 12, 2013, 09:25 AM   #6
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It's amazing how fast a kid can get into something.
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Old June 12, 2013, 09:32 AM   #7
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It's very sad for all involved and even the least expensive option would make a difference in these kind of accidents. I hope it influences some of the people that are OK leaving their gun unattended. Just not worth the risk, no matter how unlikely for it to happen to you.
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Old June 12, 2013, 09:43 AM   #8
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Punisher_1 Four adults home in that small residence and the kid gets the pistol and shoots the father? I don't buy it.
I don't know why not. There was a similar case just a couple of months ago, in which two adults were in the room with the gun when the toddler picked it up. One of them died.
A 4-year-old boy grabbed a loaded gun at a family cookout and accidentally shot and killed the wife of a sheriff's deputy, authorities said on Monday.
<snip>
Fanning was showing his weapons to a relative in a bedroom when the toddler came in and picked up a loaded gun on the bed, officials said. The weapon discharged as soon as the child picked it up, hitting 48-year-old Josephine Fanning, said Wilson County Sheriff Robert Bryan.
As Spats said, kids are fast.
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Old June 12, 2013, 09:59 AM   #9
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A safety rule, probably as old as guns, says if it's not under one's control, it should be secured.
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Old June 12, 2013, 10:00 AM   #10
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I'd proffer the best thing is, have the ability to secure them or lock the room the firearms are in.

its one reason we have quick access gun safes. I'm not worried about our kids. I'm worried about the two to two hundred of their friends I seem to have over (and who are raiding my fridge!!!) at any given time.
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Old June 12, 2013, 10:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by zincwarrior
I'm not worried about our kids. I'm worried about the two to two hundred of their friends I seem to have over (and who are raiding my fridge!!!) at any given time.
Bingo. I've taken the time to teach my daughter gun safety. Her friends' parents? Maybe, maybe not.
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Old June 12, 2013, 10:15 AM   #12
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I did have a strange conversation once with a new parent that moved into the neighborhood and who's rugrat wanted to come over. Mind you this is Texas, and not the "keep Austin weird" part.

New Parent to block (turns out from a certain western state): "Do you have firearms?"
Me: "This is Texas."
NP: "yes but do you have firearms?"
Me: "literally every house on this street has at least one rifle and shotgun. Except for that house. They have lots of guns. I'm so jealous. Would you like to go shooting with us? "
NP: "We don't have any guns."
Me:"My daughter could you lend you some."
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Old June 12, 2013, 10:16 AM   #13
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Really, if you leave a gun in your house where a kid can find it in seconds or minutes, while also leaving that gun chambered, cocked and locked, with the safety off, there should be no surprise that someone could get injured.

It's just stupid to leave a firearm like that. Also the thing with young children is they are curious and their brains have a natural reflex to grab things in their hands. They wrap their hand around the grip and end up squeezing the trigger in the process.
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Old June 12, 2013, 10:19 AM   #14
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Nice Zinc! Way to greet the neighbors. My wife says I have the same tact!
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Old June 12, 2013, 10:21 AM   #15
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Really, if you leave a gun in your house where a kid can find it in seconds or minutes, while also leaving that gun chambered, cocked and locked, with the safety off, there should be no surprise that someone could get injured.

It's just stupid to leave a firearm like that. Also the thing with young children is they are curious and their brains have a natural reflex to grab things in their hands. They wrap their hand around the grip and end up squeezing the trigger in the process.
I'd disagree with that in part.

A single bachelor who has no expectations of children - ever - being in his abode, could have weaponry cocked and locked (or just a standard revolver). if we return to the time when dinosaurs roamed and I was in my 20s, I would have been in that situation.

Now once the parenthood thing reared its wallet sucking head everything went into locked safes. Even now when one's soon off to college and the other is a teenager and smarter than I, we keep them locked up for the same reason. I'm sure once I'm spoiling grandkids (and it better be awhile !!!) it will be the same and everything locked up (even kitchen utensils when they are real young).

Last edited by zincwarrior; June 12, 2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old June 12, 2013, 11:19 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by zincwarrior
...A single bachelor who has no expectations of children - ever - being in his abode, could have weaponry cocked and locked (or just a standard revolver). if we return to the time when dinosaurs roamed and I was in my 20s, I would have been in that situation...
And you never had visitors? You didn't have any friends who came over? No one ever came to fix something or install something?

It's not only a matter of children. I'm concerned about any authorized access to my guns.
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Old June 12, 2013, 11:27 AM   #17
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At that age I never had any children come over. I didn't know anyone who had kids. Er that would kind of cramp the whole bachelor lifestyle no?

As for other people - if they were snoops they wouldn't have been welcomed in the first place.
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Old June 12, 2013, 11:33 AM   #18
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No Kids - I Don't Need To Secure My Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.willikers View Post
A safety rule, probably as old as guns, says if it's not under one's control, it should be secured.
This. Each and every time, without fail, no exceptions.
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Old June 12, 2013, 11:41 AM   #19
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sorry guys, but I'm not locking and unlocking my HD handgun every time I leave and return to my residence. Remember this is NJ, you can't take your firearms with you when you go somewhere. If I lived in free America I would have my CCW piece on my person at all times and not left unattended.

I'm single, and there's never any kids over. If there was I would either holster the handgun and unload and lock the rifle or lock my bedroom where I keep them.
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Old June 12, 2013, 11:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by zincwarrior
...As for other people - if they were snoops they wouldn't have been welcomed in the first place.
You might not know, unless/until you catch them snooping. And of course, keeping one's guns (and other valuables) secured means not having to worry about it.

Yes, one might want his gun readily available in an emergency. So he could keep it on his person. Or we also have several guns secured in various lock boxes we have around the house. The lock boxes have touch pad combinations that can be operated without looking; all are set to the same combination; all are hidden, bolted down, but readily accessible; and all contain a loaded gun, extra ammunition and a Surefire flashlight. So our loaded guns are both readily available to my wife and me as well as being secure at all time from unauthorized access.
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Old June 12, 2013, 11:51 AM   #21
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I'll also posit everyone that came over were familiar with firearms, had their own, and had shot the ones I had. I grew up in a household with the preverbial shotgun propped against a corner by the door. I'd proffer adults snooping in closets are a relative rarity. Again, they are adults...
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Old June 12, 2013, 11:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by RedBowTies88
...sorry guys, but I'm not locking and unlocking my HD handgun every time I leave and return to my residence...
Your choice; and if something bad happens, you'll be living with the consequences.
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Old June 12, 2013, 12:05 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by zincwarrior
...I'd proffer adults snooping in closets are a relative rarity. Again, they are adults...
Nonetheless, even adults on occasion do unpredictable, rude or dumb things.

This subject gets discussed here from time to time, not long ago in this thread. I always find it interesting the lengths to which some folks will go to rationalize not taking some basic precautions to prevent unauthorized access to their guns and the potentially tragic results that could, and have, come from such unauthorized access.

Bottom line is that in my view the responsible gun owner secures his guns against unauthorized access, and that means keeping it on his person or locking it up. It's a matter of personal responsibility and prudence. If someone chooses not to do so, he shouldn't expect to be congratulated on his choice.
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Old June 12, 2013, 12:20 PM   #24
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A very, very difficult way to learn that all guns should always be secured.
I'm 51, two kids. Now 13 and 15. Both grew up here in my house and surrounded by guns.

As far as the quote.... how do you define "secured?" And are we talking "all guns" or just those that have ammo available?

My carry gun is kept in the Wilderness Safepacker. The way I always carry it. When I'm home and take it off, I put it in the same semi-high place where it has always lived. Not under lock and key but not anywhere near "toddler height." Certainly my teenagers know about it and could pick it up at any time. I also keep two 12 gauge shotguns "at hand." One is a double barrel with hammers. So that one has to be cocked and then the tang safety released to fire. Kept high and out of casual sight. The FN SLP is kept in a case by the bed, loaded tube, empty chamber. Then there are three military type rifles that are kept unloaded but with the mags sitting next to them in a closet. Yes, I also have one of those small safes that you index with your hand to open for three loaded handguns. And I have two large safes.

That's it for loaded guns out here on my 90 acres. But if you walked into my living room or dining room at any given time and really opened your eyes, you would see guns here, there, and everywhere. I have a large bookcase that is built into one wall. There are probably ten handguns on top of various books up there. There are guns on the coffee table sometimes. Guns on the printer. I have three open rifle racks so that's 11 rifles right there. I love guns and always have. And I keep some "loose" around me so that I can enjoy them all day long. Always have. Even when the children were tiny. I don't agree that unloaded guns needed to be locked up.

My younger sister has observed that I never had any problem with my children and guns despite the fact that my house is full of them. When she had a child of her own, they decided to get a home defense shotgun and she called me for advice on how to "kid proof" things. She asked me what my strategy was. I told her the problem was.... my situation is rare and she wasn't going to be able to match it unless she became a gun collector.

I told her my theory was that kids like to get into things that are forbidden. Things they are told to never touch. On the other hand, at my house, I go for the "bore them to death" approach. I talk about guns all the time. I drill them on firearms safety. I take them shooting on our property. We have a standing rule that any gun can be shot at any time. If you see a gun in my safe or on the wall or in the bookshelf, you don't need to be sneaky about it. Ask me, I'll hand it to you and tell you everything about it. I'll show you how to take it apart. We'll round up 100 rounds and take it out in the pasture right now and shoot it. Take all the mystery and forbidden part out of it. It's the way children used to be raised around guns. And it has worked for me. I've seen my children shove various handguns off to one side so that they can sit at a table to eat lunch. Without any curiosity or "forbidden fruit" looks in their eyes.

(These guns weren't loaded and there is never ammo anywhere around any guns except for the ones that are ALWAYS loaded. Keeps you from being confused and making a mistake. Despite that, I check each one when I pick it up. And if I tell one of my children to go get me one specifically, I watch them to make sure they check it before they cross the room. Even though they roll their eyes and look bored!)

I realize most people don't have enough guns to really bore the children but it works for me!

So no, I don't agree that "all guns should always be secured."

Oh, I know what some will say. What about their friends? We almost never have any kid friends out to the house. We live five miles outside of town so nobody is going to just walk here or even ride a bike. If we end up with an overnight guest, I embarrass my kids but they know the rules. They bring the kid to me. And they get questioned about their gun experience. What they've shot and how they like it. Then I offer right then and there to take them outside into the pasture and let them shoot something. Quell that curiosity right now. No need to secretly touch that old Mosin on the wall, I'll take you out and let you shoot an AK or FAL right now.

If I ever had a kid fail my questions... that would be a problem. But this is a rural county and it hasn't happened yet.

And we have 15 Belgian Malinois in the yard and house just to keep an eye on things. Or 30 eyes. We don't have intruder problems.

Gregg
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Old June 12, 2013, 12:22 PM   #25
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If someone chooses not to do so, he shouldn't expect to be congratulated on his choice.
Why would I need you (a stranger on the internet) to "congratulate me?" Am I supposed to care if you approve of my choice in cars/food/TV shows as well?

Use your brains and experience. Think about things and your personal situation. Don't give a rat's crap about what other people think.

Gregg
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