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Old June 7, 2013, 08:42 PM   #1
Old_Dog
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6 shot dead in Santa Monica, CA

Another tragic shooting took place just a little while ago in Santa Monica, CA. The killer or killers are still on the loose as of 9:17:55 PM today. Apparently the gunman was not familiar with the myriad California gun control laws or simply decided to ignore them. Read editorial and link to full story here.
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Old June 7, 2013, 09:02 PM   #2
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the last paragraph of that article is very interesting...
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Old June 7, 2013, 09:04 PM   #3
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I read elsewhere that the shooter is dead.
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Old June 7, 2013, 11:01 PM   #4
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Is that your blog?

If not, it is considered customary (as well as legal) when quoting someone else's writing, to acknowledge the source and the author.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dog
Apparently the gunman was not familiar with the myriad California gun control laws or simply decided to ignore them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dog's link
Apparently the gunman was not familiar with the myriad California gun control laws or simply decided to ignore them.
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Old June 7, 2013, 11:25 PM   #5
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Unfortunately, this tragedy will likely be linked back to some sort of conception that the current firearms laws are not strict enough. Moreover, it'll probably lead to even the most Draconian of the recent attempts at furthering gun control legislation by the politicians there to be passed into law. It will be interesting to see more on this story and how the politicians there react as it develops.

That being said, it is good to hear that the criminals were put to justice in a timely manner.
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Old June 8, 2013, 01:15 AM   #6
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I heard that the shooter is dead now. My impression based on early reports was that the shooter had both a rifle and handgun. But that could have been press bias as well... clips and so forth...
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Old June 8, 2013, 04:09 AM   #7
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Six dead

They only attempt to pass guns laws that do nothing to solve the problem, because they do not want to solve it, then they can say "SEE WE NEED MORE GUN LAWS." Pushing toward their real goal which to take away all the guns. Note this shooting is a SAD and tragedy.......but all of us know
that as long as there are GUN FREE ZONES this will happen. We also know
that with armed guards the result will be a dead shooter (Bad Guy) and fewer
people killed.
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Old June 8, 2013, 06:54 AM   #8
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Re: 6 shot dead in Santa Monica, CA

I'm shocked that the shooter didn't put down his weapons and walk away after realizing that no one inside that gun free zone was unarmed.

That's what Feinstein told us would happen...
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Old June 8, 2013, 07:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
I'm shocked that the shooter didn't put down his weapons and walk away after realizing that no one inside that gun free zone was unarmed.

That's what Feinstein told us would happen...
No you are not shocked and unless you have a direct quoted source, I am fairly certain Feinstein never said what you claim.

This shooting spree (defined as a series of shootings in multiple locations with no cooling off period) did not start in any sort of gun-free zone. It started in a home and moved out onto the streets before ending up on a campus. That part of it happened in a gun-free zone really doesn't matter at all. Whether or not the shootings occur happen regardless of zoning.

I noticed that nobody on the forum made a big deal about Estaban Smith's shooting rampage in Texas, in a rural area where a LOT of the locals are armed. Nobody here sarcastically claimed he wasn't familiar with gun laws, life laws, driving laws, or any other laws or proclaimed the failure of all these other laws to stop his crimes. Nobody misquoted Feinstein or claimed mock shock. Smith apparently killed his wife back home in NC first, and for whatever reason went on a shooting rampage in rural Texas. He wounded 5 and killed 1 in the process in Texas, also using an assault rifle, and was put down by cops at the end of his 90 minute spree. Unlike the Santa Monica shooting, Smith was a decorated combat Marine with multiple tours under his belt.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ay-police?lite
http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/05/te...esteban-smith/
http://abcnews.go.com/US/marine-kill...1#.UbMk_U4o6M8

This notion of acting all shocked and put out because laws were violated really is absurd. We all know that people break the law and that laws do not prevent anybody from doing anything they really want to do. The shooter in Santa Monica did enter a gun-free zone, sure enough, but you know what, all of the zones crossed by both shooters were attempted murder and murder-free zones.

And just to be a bit more clear on the OP's shooting spree, only 4 people were killed by the gunman. He was killed by the cops. I don't know why we only focus on the number of dead, but he also wounded 5 others. They matter as well.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...0,323148.story
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Old June 8, 2013, 11:22 AM   #10
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People are getting desensitized to these events because of the medias overboard coverage of these shootings. By Monday no one will even be talking about this shooting and I blame the media but to tell you the truth I'm glad that's the case. Attention is what these idiots committing these crimes are looking for and it seems CNN are the only ones left who are obliging them.
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Old June 8, 2013, 12:25 PM   #11
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AB, based on other posts and links Old Dog has made, that is his blog.
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Old June 8, 2013, 02:20 PM   #12
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CNN is saying the perp was treated at a mental hospital "about two years ago". CA has a program where the guns of newly convicted felons and mental cases are confiscated.

Quote:
CNN is reporting that the unidentified shooter was treated for mental health issues "a couple of years ago" but sources aren't sure whether he hospitalized himself or whether he was involuntarily committed.
http://gawker.com/santa-monica-gunma...l-he-512105302

Last edited by thallub; June 8, 2013 at 02:33 PM.
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Old June 8, 2013, 08:37 PM   #13
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The comments are the typical scathing stuff

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...icle-1.1366368

I figure it being in New York might have something to do with it.

On another note, check out the gear that SWAT team has. Is that an HK G36? I thought those were banned totally due to import restrictions
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Old June 8, 2013, 09:35 PM   #14
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It's not "New York." It's the Daily News, which competes quite well with Rupert Murdoch's worst tabloids in the arena of sensationalist "journalism."

The article described the shooter as a "crazed madman," a "berserk black-clad gunman," a "crazed killer," and a "madman," all in the space of about 10 sentences.

The comments are... from people who like that kind of "reporting."

Responsible journalism, anyone?
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Old June 8, 2013, 10:48 PM   #15
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It's not "New York
It is to some extent. An acquaintance is in Brooklyn right now, and according to her, the coverage is quite lurid.

Local news cut to a shot of the supposed weapons used. One was a single-action revolver, and the other appeared to be a very old and worn Armalite CAR with triangular handguards.
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Old June 8, 2013, 10:55 PM   #16
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What do I know, I read the Times, which is biased but tends not to call people "berserk"....
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Old June 9, 2013, 12:02 AM   #17
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I assumed New York Daily News meant it was a local rag to New York. I forgot about rather odd naming conventions
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Old June 9, 2013, 12:09 AM   #18
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Shooter's last name is Zawarhi, I don't like to stereotype, but that may tell something. There will be more information coming out soon.
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Old June 9, 2013, 12:51 AM   #19
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According to this LA Times piece, he was of Lebanese descent, and he was set off by some sort of complicated family dispute, possibly involving his parents' divorce. It seems that he first killed his father and brother and then set fire to their house.
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Old June 9, 2013, 06:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
It started in a home and moved out onto the streets before ending up on a campus. That part of it happened in a gun-free zone really doesn't matter at all. Whether or not the shootings occur happen regardless of zoning.
Disagree. We don't know everything so far but from the LA police statements and leaks to reporters the operating view seems to be that he did in fact intend to go to the school. At first they were indicating they believed he merely ended up a the school, what they are saying now is that that was his destination.

I find the "gun free zone" as a target of spree killers to be compelling and germane.

The triggering event for many these spree killers may be unplanned, but that does not mean the killers are acting randomly and without a plan.

For all we know Lanza had a some kind of argument (domestic dispute) or random event with his mom that set him off on what had previously been a fantasy that he ran over and over in his head and was well thought out.

This Santa Monica killer may have had a triggering "family dispute" event occur, triggering the acting out an existing school shooting fantasy.

WE do know these spree school shooters are often focused on prior shooters and attaining high body counts. That is indeed why they target gun free zones which enable those body counts.

Essentially these young men are suicidal and seek to defeat their insignificance through fame that derives from the final act. That fame is increased by a high body count. the high body count is in some part enabled by heading to a high density gun free zone.

The fact that Feinstein believes in gun free zones is also germane. Not simply because they are ineffective and in many cases ironically draw the shooter. But because they are a diversion from the real causes and sources of criminal violence. The anti gun movement, particularly the politicians who use it, involves at its heart, a massive diversion. That diversion has two core problems/evils: a) it implies it is solving the problem but it is not; b) it scapegoats and sanctions an innocent class of persons (gun owners).
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Old June 10, 2013, 01:17 AM   #21
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http://news.yahoo.com/lightbox/weapo...004551441.html

This picture is certainly interesting. It appears to be a "featureless" AR 15 replicating the M16A1 style and a Colt SAA?

It includes banned high capacity magazines. I'm curious why a revolver. Was it a crime of passion and what was in the house? Was he unable to buy a firearm and bought a black powder revolver?

While researching the story I found this ["Any time someone puts on a vest, of some sort, comes out with a bag full of loaded magazines, has an extra receiver, has a handgun and has a semi-automatic rifle, carjacks folks, goes to a college, kills more people and has to be neutralized at the hands of the police, I would say that that's premeditated," said Seabrooks.] (Emphasis mine)

What was he doing with an extra receiver? And what happened that he was stopped before he used even a small percentage of those 1,300 rounds?

They also say he had a shotgun. I can only imagine the weight of a rifle, handgun, shotgun, extra receiver, vest, knee pads, and 1,300 rounds of ammo.
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Old June 10, 2013, 08:49 AM   #22
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I went looking for a timeline to help me understand when school shootings started to be a thing. I found this -

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

Which only goes back to 1996 - but it is interesting.

Separating out one on one shootings - kid hates teacher - from kid suits up and goes in full commando style, I'd like to trace it back to its roots.
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Old June 10, 2013, 10:01 AM   #23
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Quote:
This picture is certainly interesting. It appears to be a "featureless" AR 15 replicating the M16A1 style and a Colt SAA?
That revolver looks like a replica Remington 1858 New Army BP pistol with a conversion cylinder in it.
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Old June 10, 2013, 11:09 AM   #24
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We don't know if 'gun free zone' meant anything to this person. We have had rampages in 'you are free' to carry a gun zones.

As far as the commentary about TX - well, schools are gun free zones in TX - so TX is irrelevant. Campus carry has been thwarted consistently in the past legislative sessions.
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Old June 10, 2013, 11:15 AM   #25
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What was he doing with an extra receiver?
It isn't an extra receiver. It is an extra upper (of which the receiver is but one part of the upper) without the bolt carrier assembly.

What was he going to do with it? Apparently, I would guess, he was worried about overheating the upper currently on the gun and planned on being able to change out between the two.

Quote:
Separating out one on one shootings - kid hates teacher - from kid suits up and goes in full commando style, I'd like to trace it back to its roots.
Well, the kids don't usually suit up full commando style, but I have gone through a LOT of the mass shootings and a bunch that involved fewer people. Generally speaking, they occur when the shooter or shooters feel that they have been somehow wronged, often by a large number of people. The below-college shooter(s) are often described by their peers in derogatory terms (geek, outcast, loser, slouch, dumb, stupid, etc.) by multiples of people. When information is available, the shootings are often revenge-based in many aspects where anyone in the school (or nearly) so is a viable target because "school" is the problem, not just individuals.

Most college mass shootings can involve some similar aspects, but also those who feel threatened by their lack of academic performance who take out their stress on those involved with the process and sometimes with those in the vicinity as well.

Workplace mass shootings can still have the interpersonal issues noted above, but also performance issues whereby the employee doing the shooting has been terminated (former employee), passed over for promotion, feels mistreated by mgmt. and/or coworkers, etc.

Of course, this ignores the plethora of mass shootings that occur at home.

However, what all of these tend to have in common is that the shooter has a connection with the location of the shooting. A kid bullied at School A does not go and shoot up School B to get a high body count even if school B has a lot more student. Fired or disciplined employees do not go and shoot up some other workplace than the one where their problem was.

There are some exceptionally rare mass shootings that certainly don't fit the pattern, such as Luby's in Texas, McDonald's in California, IHOP in Nevada, the Amish school (weird hostage situation), and the spree I noted above in Eden, Texas where there appears to be no connection with the shooter and the location or people. These really are the rarest of the rare events.

On a side note, a fifth victim of John Zawahri has passed. However, what I found interesting the following news article shows video of Zawahri entering the library NOT carrying any sort of duffel bag.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ll-climbs?lite

Zawahri had been a student at the college as recently as 2010. He had also been treated (like many of the others) for mental problems.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-divorce.html
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