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Old June 7, 2013, 09:16 PM   #26
Shane Tuttle
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That's two members saying LaserLyte is a good suggestion. I might have to look into that for myself...
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Old June 7, 2013, 09:55 PM   #27
Rebel9793
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Shane, They're handy. Good training tool an if you got nothing else to do while your watching TV? Set it up next to or under your TV an fire away. Work on your trigger pull an form while you dont even think about it.
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Old June 7, 2013, 11:26 PM   #28
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Pencil Practice, bring up a method from long ago.
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Old June 8, 2013, 02:16 AM   #29
Jammer Six
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I reload. Before the prices went up, I had bought a lot of components. Not because I'm wise, or saw it coming, it just happened that way.

Because of reloading, I have been able to train at the same level.
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Old June 8, 2013, 03:33 AM   #30
NWCP
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I use a .25 caliber PCP airgun for rifle practice and varmint hunting as well. Keeps me up on my trigger control and scope use out to 100 yards. It also allows me to keep after small furry critters in the off season. For pistols I fugally use .22LR in one of my many .22 cal. pistols. With .22 being hard to find these days I've cut back on my range time a bit.

I scored some reasonable .45ACP a week or so ago so I'l be using my HK45C carry piece at the range every other week. I managed to get 500 rounds so I can stretch it out 50 rounds per session for a bit, or maybe even 100 rounds providing I can locate some more to replace my practice ammo. I have .45ACP in reserve, but I don't want to run through it.

Dry fire is also a good approach, but nothing tops live fire if you can feed your guns. Good luck.
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Old June 8, 2013, 10:05 AM   #31
garryc
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Quote:
Dry fire is also a good approach, but nothing tops live fire if you can feed your guns.
I'm not big on dry fire because it reenforces mistakes. That's why I use the pencil.

So what you do is take a pencil with an eraser. Sharpen it down until it is about 2 inches longer than your barrel. Use Scotch tape around the muzzle area, over the feral and in the middle. The pencil should slide easily, but not have a lot of slop.

Take a piece of paper and tape it to a wall. Put a small dot on it to simulate a target. A dot the diameter of the eraser works well, smaller also works well. Cock the gun and place the pencil against the breach face. Aim at the dot from a distance half the length of your barrel. When you fire the energy of the firing pin will hit the eraser and propel the pencil out of the barrel. It will hit the paper and leave a mark.

Fire and hold through for a 3 count. If the pencil is hitting in different spots you are moving the gun before, or just after, sear break. If it leaves a streak that will tell you what direction you are moving the gun after firing. Ideally it should hit the exact same spot every time. And that spot should be a pin prick.

This is kind of like dry fire, but it gives some feedback

Last edited by garryc; June 8, 2013 at 10:36 AM.
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Old June 8, 2013, 01:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
Cock the gun and place the pencil against the breach face. Aim at the dot from a distance half the length of your barrel...
I don't think I follow this. Aim from two inches away from the paper?

I'm not sure what this would contribute to one's marksmanship. Or maybe I'm not understanding the drill.


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Old June 8, 2013, 02:42 PM   #33
Mike19
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I practice a lot with dry fire when I'm home. I use A-Zoom .22 and 9 mm snap caps..
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Last edited by Frank Ettin; June 9, 2013 at 03:30 PM. Reason: remove inappropriate comment
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Old June 8, 2013, 02:52 PM   #34
Erno86
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When you dryfire...try using a rifle or pistol scope, so as too make it easier to catch your errors.
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Old June 8, 2013, 10:23 PM   #35
garryc
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Quote:
I don't think I follow this. Aim from two inches away from the paper?

I'm not sure what this would contribute to one's marksmanship. Or maybe I'm not understanding the drill.
Actually the end of the pencil is half the barrel length away from the paper.

Put it this way, if your hold, trigger squeeze and hold through is not perfect the tip of the pencil will not hit the exact same spot each time.
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Old June 9, 2013, 05:17 AM   #36
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Growing up as I did under a man who grew up out of the depression, I learned really early that we didn't just go shoot up a lot of ammo at the range.

Where there were always lots of folks who shot boxes, we only would shoot half and sometimes even less depending on what we were shooting. Our practice involved hitting the bull with every round. didn't always work out that way, but in doing so it made me a MUCH better shot.

don't get me wrong, there were times we DID shoot quite a bit, but these times were very rare. Pop figured those bullets were better spent putting meat in the freezer than paper shreds on the ground. Even with the 22's, when I headed out at the farm he would listen for shots. When I came back to the house I had better have something to account for them.

When I got into handguns in my late teens, I was loading them, and shooting upwards of 2-300 rounds a week. This wasn't as big a deal with him as he didn't feel they were as practical for hunting as I did. Once we got out together he would shoot a dozen or so rounds and he was done. Of course he would put them all where he wanted them to go as well.

Nowadays, I head to the range with anywhere between 2 and 5 rifles and possibly 3-5 handguns. I usually will run anywhere between 5 and 20 rounds, depending on what rifle or handguns I am shooting, through them all. This gives me the "blasting ammo away" feeling, without really burning through a lot of ammo of any particular type or caliber. I always shoot slowly and deliberately taking time to inspect each shot. Just like when pop was around, I feel the most important thing is to hit what your shooting at, where you need to, with the first shot. If a second is needed I will deal with it when that situation arises.

I guess his thoughts on these matters was ingrained in my head when I was young. He simply felt that fewer rounds over a longer period did more good than a lot of rounds at one time. I really cannot argue with this, as I never saw him miss anything he took aim at, in all my years of hunting and shooting with him.
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Old June 9, 2013, 03:04 PM   #37
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There is, unfortunately, no substitute for rounds downrange.
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Old June 10, 2013, 07:03 PM   #38
Glenn E. Meyer
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SIRT laser Glock.

Also, for FOF, using live rounds make downrange a touch nasty.

So it depends on the kind of practice. Tactics and scenario training can be done with the airsoft or laser simulated guns.
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Old June 10, 2013, 08:27 PM   #39
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
...it depends on the kind of practice....
Exactly.

I've found dry firing very useful and effective for working on trigger control. It's also a good way to work on presentation from a holster.

Dry practice can also be effective for improving both speed and tactical reloads. I've found these especially useful for that.
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Old June 30, 2013, 03:53 PM   #40
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IMO, there are several options or steps:

- Go .22lr and get a .22 version of your main handgun or rifle or a conversion kit. There is an initial investment in the gun, magazines and maybe accessories but in the long run it can either save you money or increase the practice you get. I really like S&W's idea to offer an M&P15-22 and M&P22 with identical handling and even outer dimensions (same holster!).

- Go airsoft. Same as above, with even lower running costs. Lets you shoot at home AND practice how to defend you home. I got a cheap airsoft handgun that fits my Glock holster. Lets me practice drawing and shooting at home. Also a safe way to practice shooting at arm's length without the danger of perforating you own left hand or arm.

- Reload. The option with the highest initial investment and the highest effort necessary to save a small fraction of the ammo cost.

- Download. When I practice procedures like reloading, I download my mags. A typical drill is to load one mag with 5, one with 3 and one with 2 rounds. '5' goes in the gun, '3' is the 1st in the mag carrier, '2' is the 2nd. I start engaging the target with a few rounds, stop to do a deliberate reload with mag '2', reengage to slide stop, speed reload '3', reengage, and speed reload '5' again. That way, with just ten rounds, I get to practice four target engagements and three reloads.
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Old June 30, 2013, 04:20 PM   #41
Garycw
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How to practice with less ammo?

I have a couple pellet rifles I enjoy shooting too. A .22 and .177 cal 1100 and 1200 fps. I also stocked up on pellets before they become scarce as well.
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Old June 30, 2013, 04:25 PM   #42
Onward Allusion
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Well, I'm taking the suggestions of a couple of LaserLyte users. Got the system on order and I can't wait to start practicing with it.
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Old June 30, 2013, 10:49 PM   #43
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BB guns.


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Old July 1, 2013, 08:15 AM   #44
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Make every shot count
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Old July 1, 2013, 09:41 PM   #45
Navy joe
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Reload. Component costs are up, that just means I'll probably never make 9mm for $65/1K anymore. It's way cheaper than buying at walmart.
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Old July 2, 2013, 01:32 PM   #46
MK11
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Shoot actual drills with a designated amount of ammo. Certain # of rounds two-hands, strong hand, weak hand, mix up some distances and you're done. Most people I see at the range blast away at the same target at the same distance in the same stance, over and over.
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Old July 2, 2013, 02:56 PM   #47
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Spend an entire day at the range using your weak hand instead of your normal strong hand.


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Old July 2, 2013, 10:07 PM   #48
Deaf Smith
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Quote:
With the ammo and component shortages, how is it possible to still train and practice?
g.willikers,

I stretch out my ammo budget by these methods:

1. I have die cast aluminum guns (they are used to make holsters) for my two main carry guns (Glock sub-compact and J frame S&W.) I used these guns for practicing drawing, left or right hand, at home without fear of a AD/ND. I get to practice all kinds of pivots, left handed draws, retention draws, etc...

2. I have an air-soft Glock subcompact I converted to a laser gun. It fits my holsters and allows me at home to practice hip shooting in low light. I use lamp shades as silhouettes and the laser beam hits right where the sights shoot. I hope one day to have a Crimsom Trace laser grip on a dummy J frame .38 for just that purpose.

3. I have .22 understudies for my Glock sub-compact (I use the AACK unit) and a 2 inch J frame 63 .22 lr. that matches my snub .38s and .357s.

4. I RELOAD! Yes reload 9mm and .38 special and I have lots of brass, slugs, primers, power, etc...

And then when I practice I have routines I use to stretch out the shooting. I many times put one round in the magazine and draw, fire one shot, then reload with spare magazine that also has one shot. Do this several times to practice speed reloading.

I always shot from the leather for the first shot of any string. I practice transitions by using the .22s first before going to centerfire rounds. Same for double taps.

Plus I do lots lots more!

Deaf
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Old July 2, 2013, 10:22 PM   #49
David13
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Slow down.
Make every shot count.
I never did understand why people will stand there and pull the trigger as fast as they can, and reload, and repeat.
Their goal is quantity. Mine is quality.
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Old July 3, 2013, 02:54 AM   #50
Navy joe
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In general, I agree with the advice to slow down, most people have no idea what they are doing when shooting fast. Unfortunately, I learned to shoot well fast by shooting fast. You just can't simulate the sight tracking and muscle development with airsoft or sub-calibers. And I say this having shot a 22 conversion almost exclusively for 3 years when I couldn't afford much else.

I used to do bill drills and full mag dumps late in my practice,ate up a ton of cheap ammo. I always re-calibrated myself after that, last rounds of the night were always 25yd slowfire.
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