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Old July 14, 2013, 04:31 AM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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Things that make me nervous!!

At the range yesterday, i was queueing to sign in and I saw a guy carrying a revolver. It was in a shoulder rig, both of which are pretty unusual for this country, as far as I've seen, but this shoulder rig put the gun on the horizontal.

It was sweeping everyone every time he shifted position!! My time here on TFL is obviously taking effect as I was dodging, ducking and diving to get out of the way. Not a nice feeling, yet everyone else in the queue seemed oblivious.

Perhaps I was making a mountain out of a mole-hill, because with the full holster cover of the trigger I guess those rigs are safe enough or they wouldn't be sold and then there is the DA trigger pull, but still.....

It was.... unsettling.
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Old July 14, 2013, 09:16 AM   #2
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Being swept by a holstered gun is the least of my concerns. I wouldn't have paid it any attention either.
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Old July 14, 2013, 09:26 AM   #3
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It would make me nervous.

My range allows holstered weapons, even during cease fire periods, but they must be strong side only. No shoulder or cross draws.


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Old July 14, 2013, 11:16 AM   #4
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I, too, would not be as comfortable standing behind someone with such an arrangement.
At least not as much as other ways to carry.
A revolver wouldn't be the same as an autoloader, though, especially one cocked and locked.
A short barreled version would be of less concern, too.
Then, if he screwed up, he'd be more likely to shoot himself.
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Old July 14, 2013, 12:26 PM   #5
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So you have mental break downs every time you are in a multistory building and folks upstairs may have a strong side holster barrel pointing down?

This is over the top. An holstered gun that isn't being played with isn't just gonna go off. Chill out.

If you are that nervous about them then don't own one.
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Old July 14, 2013, 02:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
mental break downs
Because I mentioned mental breakdowns sooo many times in my OP....

Quote:
If you are that nervous about them then don't own one.
Ergo:

Being swept by a loaded weapon makes me feel uncomfortable = shouldn't own any guns....

Riiiight.
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Old July 14, 2013, 02:52 PM   #7
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I think horizontal shoulder holsters just aren't generally worn much by people that carry a lot. I've never met a cop that does, on or off duty, including the tactical team guys. Sonny Crocket carried one I guess...

So with that I generally assume that if I came across someone at the range (or anywhere else) carrying in that manner, he's less than well trained. True the gun in the holster won't obviously "go off by itself". But at some point that guy will take it out of the holster. When he does it's a guaranteed 180 degree muzzle sweep at least. During that time he may or may not have his finger on the trigger. That doesn't matter much to me. Sweep me with a loaded (or even unloaded) pistol, even with your finger off the trigger, and I'm nervous.

Mental breakdown? Um, no.


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Old July 14, 2013, 03:04 PM   #8
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Guns in holsters aren't dangerous. There's no such thing as getting "swept" by a holstered handgun.
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Old July 14, 2013, 04:11 PM   #9
Pond, James Pond
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Quote:
Guns in holsters aren't dangerous.
When manipulating a gun, I keep my finger off the trigger and keep the muzzle from sweeping people.
In that condition, I am touching as much of the gun as I ever physically could were it holstered, yet if I swept someone, they would not be happy.

So whilst statistically, I agree holstered guns aren't dangerous, personally I feel one should apply rule #2 to everything rather than deciding which circumstances are OK .
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Old July 14, 2013, 04:21 PM   #10
Brian Pfleuger
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I guess I should be more specific...

Holstered guns that aren't being handled/manipulated aren't dangerous.

We don't "decide which circumstances are ok". Handling the gun is the one and only circumstance that matters. If the gun is being handled, the 4 rules apply. If it is not, they don't.

A holstered handgun is not dangerous. A horizontal shoulder holster, by itself, is not dangerous. Yes, it takes extra precautions/training/thought to draw the gun without unintentionally sweeping bystanders. I wouldn't wear one at a range, because it might make it extra special difficult to draw without sweeping someone but it certainly could be done.

However, as a means of carry, where the gun would only be drawn under dire circumstances, there's nothing dangerous about walking around with the muzzle of the gun pointed at people. I carry on my waist. If I bend at the waist to pick something up or have to get down on my hands and knees to look under my car or something, my gun would point at whoever is behind me. It's not dangerous. I'm not handling the gun.
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Old July 14, 2013, 04:46 PM   #11
Pond, James Pond
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Fair enough: all well and good.

However, (and perhaps this is just me) having that barrel pointing at me from the holster was not something I particularly cared for and so I moved to one side if it pointed at me.
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Old July 14, 2013, 10:41 PM   #12
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Just an IMO

I have some horizontal carry holsters.Sometimes,they are a good way to carry.

Would I wear one,open carry,at a shooting range?.No.As a courtesy.

From a practical standpoint,it can be argued that a holstered firearm is safe to sweep folks with..OK..How does that compare to sweeping folks with a gun that isn't loaded?An unloaded gun is just a paperweight,right?

When I find myself looking into the muzzle of a horizontal carry holstered handgun...looking into a muzzle makes me uncomfortable,the same way having someone at a gunshow fumbling with a handgun ,an unloaded handgun,makes me nervous when its pointed at my head.

I do not flip out,but I might move.
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Old July 15, 2013, 08:18 AM   #13
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How'd does it compare to sweeping folks with a "gun that isn't loaded"?

Well, there's no such thing. All guns are always loaded.

However, "loaded" guns aren't dangerous. Guns that are being handled/manipulated by a person are dangerous.

Therefore, a gun in a hand that's sweeping me IS dangerous because it IS loaded and should not be pointing at anything that it's handler is not willing to destroy.

I understand the aversion to having a holstered gun pointed at you. It's a natural instinct (or should be).

Rational thought can override instinct though. I flinch just looking down a barrel that's not even connected to gun. I know its not dangerous but I have a natural aversion to having a barrel pointed at me.

Same thing would occur with a shoulder holster. First instinct is to flinch. Second thought is "Oh. It's holstered. It's safe."

How about those $20 plastic rifle cases that wouldn't stop a BB? Does it make folks nervous when someone is walking around with one of those, pointing the rifle at everybody in the room?
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Old July 15, 2013, 09:45 AM   #14
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I can understand that jumpiness. it's a carry over from proper firearms safety mentality. however I pay little mind to holster guns unless it's some odd design that keeps the trigger exposed. some places also do not allow carrying in condition 1 or zero meaning they have to carry with an empty chamber and even if it is not a requirement some people do just to avoid negligent discharges. there's no telling if that revolver was even ready to go off if somebody pulled it out and started sweeping the room. only person that knows is the guy in the shoulder rig.
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Old July 15, 2013, 04:20 PM   #15
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That guy...sweeping everybody with that shoulder rig at the range, sounds like another "Lord of the Range" type --- that thinks he's in command of the range --- with all the range safety rules being flown out the window, besides "HIS" own version of the range safety rules.

Being swept by a gun is bad doo-doo, even if the gun is holstered. If I saw that gun-sweeping yahoo, I'd be running for cover too!!!

I would safely maneuver myself over to the offending chap, and politely tell him, that he's been sweeping everybody within eyesight at the range. If the bloke continues with the offending manner...go tell the RSO {range safety officer}, with the hope of the RSO, sending the wayward chap home for the day.

Even though it's rare...you can have a hot barreled cook-off with a loaded gun. If the bloke has a wooden stick stuck in the holster, it could possibly cock the hammer with the trigger and let the hammer fall; when he shoves the gun back in the holster
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Old July 15, 2013, 04:28 PM   #16
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A DA revolver in a holster is about as inert as a rock. A DA revolver being drawn from a holster with nothing touching the hammer or trigger is equally inert. As with most guns, stuff doesn't start happening until something touches the trigger.

Let's use a little rational thought, here....
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Old July 15, 2013, 08:26 PM   #17
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I'm different. I know most clubs, schools, etc. don't like shoulder holsters or cross draws.

I do. When I teach a class I have all the students try them. The thing is, with a shoulder holster or cross draw its easer to get the gun out with either hand. A strong side only holster is near impossible to get the gun into action with the weak hand.

Cross draws or shoulder holsters make the gun easer to get to while setting in a car, or on a couch.

There is no sweeping of others in the class, do to the classes being small I'm one on one with the individual using the shoulder/cross draw holster.

It may not be for everyone, but its an valid option.
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Old July 15, 2013, 10:50 PM   #18
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I know quite a few people that use a Horizontal shoulder holster including myself,sometimes its the best choice for the situation. Most of my friends that use a shoulder holster are hardly what I would call untrained,they are more trained than most.
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Old July 16, 2013, 12:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
A DA revolver being drawn from a holster with nothing touching the hammer or trigger is equally inert. As with most guns, stuff doesn't start happening until something touches the trigger.
Check one...two...Good morning shooters. This is your range controller. It's ok to point your guns at anyone as long as your finger isn't on the trigger.


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Old July 16, 2013, 03:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Check one...two...Good morning shooters. This is your range controller. It's ok to point your guns at anyone as long as your finger isn't on the trigger.
Its hardly the same thing.
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Old July 16, 2013, 04:36 PM   #21
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A gun in a holster DOES NOT COUNT.

I notice no one wants to take on the rifle in the $20 plastic case? Why is that different?

You have no idea if it's loaded or not, you don't even know what's in there. It could be two, loaded rifles, one pointing in each direction, with the safety off.

This is really quite silly. A holstered handgun that is not being manipulated by a human IS NOT DANGEROUS.

A holstered handgun that is not being manipulated by a human DOES NOT COUNT as being "swept".
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Old July 16, 2013, 05:45 PM   #22
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Brian: i think people are just commenting without reading previous comments. GREAT point on the rifle case scenario.
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Old July 16, 2013, 07:52 PM   #23
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Re: Things that make me nervous!!

Not to mention people like my wife that are "sweeping" people all the time with it in her purse. Got that neat center pocket with the gun pointing straight out.
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Old July 16, 2013, 10:59 PM   #24
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I'm not sure how many people I "swept" today with my loaded G22 in my backpack. However, I am sure, since it is also in a holster that covers the trigger that there is no way that it was going to go bang. If the person with the shoulder holster was wearing a jacket or suit coat, would anyone have been concerned about being "swept"? Then again, how would anyone know?

To Brian's point, when I go to the rifle range, I usually have 2 rifles in my hard case facing opposite directions. Both are unloaded (you have to take that at face value, because I told you that they are...but you didn't check them so are they??) so no matter what way I hold the case I'm likely "sweeping" people. No one at the range I frequent does the "duck and cover" as I go to the line. Or as any one else goes to the line for that matter.

To make a long story short, this is much ado about nothing in my book.
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Old July 17, 2013, 09:43 AM   #25
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Re-reading this topic reminds me of my CMP GSM Clinics and matches.

Being Wyoming most everyone carries so when I walk behind the line of my shooters who are in the prone position I see lots of pistols poking out at me from under jackets and shirts.

I never feel threatened.

I run a cold range, meaning no one loads until they are on the line and told to load.

When people asked me about their CC weapons, I say, "Concealed is Concealed, if they stay in your pocket, its none of my business".
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