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Old June 2, 2013, 12:57 PM   #1
FALPhil
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No More Moose Out West?

One of my fondest hunting memories comes from a stand on Porcupine Mountain in Northeast Utah while hunting mule deer. Right before sunrise, a cow moose and two younglings worked their way up to the waterhole I was over to slake their thirst. I watched them for about 30 minutes before they took off to find breakfast. Later that morning, I harvested a nice 4x3 mulie with a 20 inch spread.

Later on, when my kids were older, we did a week long camping trip in Yellowstone and the Tetons. During that week, my young children were able to witness a truly spectacular example of male moosedom feeding in Jackson Lake in about 4 feet of water.

Lately, I have been watching what has been going on with non-native wolf reintroduction in the Western States. It appears that wolves have just about wiped out moose in Yellowstone. Friends and aquaintences have informed me that the number of elk in an around the Yellowstone/Teton areas have been noticeably diminished.

I understand that states like Colorado, Montana, and Idaho have been petitioning the USFWS for the ability to manage wolf hunting in order to stabilize the predation of ungulates. It seems that they have been only partially successful.

Considering that wolves are not a migratory mammal, and they are not particularly endangered - Canada and Alaska have a ton of wolves - I am concerned that wolf reintroduction is another not-so-well-thought-out federal program with unintended consequences.

What can we East Coast hunters do to help the states get control over their wolves?
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Old June 2, 2013, 03:51 PM   #2
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
What can we East Coast hunters do to help the states get control over their wolves?
Remind the parties involved that they introduced a non-native species.

Support hunters, ranchers, farmers, and wildlife management in the states that are trying to "manage" (eliminate) them.

And, start spreading the word in your neck of the woods. The only reason the wolves are protected so well, is because they have national support - even though it's only a small portion of the population that has to live with the problems created by them.



And... before this thread starts taking the normal path towards its eventual death, you may want to ask people not to get too deep into their personal feelings on the politics of wolf reintroduction. This thread will be dead before the second page, if that happens.
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Old June 2, 2013, 11:41 PM   #3
tahunua001
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Remind the parties involved that they introduced a non-native species.
+1
the wolves introduced are indigenous to a much harsher environment where climate offers a higher mortality rate for pups and non-stop hunting is a necessity. now they are down here where there is no mortality for pups because as far as they are concerned the weather here is mild. the game was so plentiful that they didn't know how to react, they have been bread to kill whatever they find because they never know when they'll find more food so they ended up wiping out entire herds of deer, elk and what few moose there were. the wolves we had before kept things in check and were adapted to their native habitat, what we have now is an invasive species.

in north idaho we still have deer, moose, and elk but the numbers in areas that there are wolves have dropped to next to nothing. I went muzzle loading for deer last winter in wolf country. all accounts I had heard was that you NEVER go out there without seeing at least 2 dozen deer and a fair number of them being large buck. I saw 2 little does and a lot of puppy tracks.
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Old June 3, 2013, 11:05 PM   #4
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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If your politicians won't/ don't help in removing Grey Wolves from your States Endangered Species Listing. You’re pretty much screwed as my State was for many years. Decades is more like it.
Many cattle growers in this State were just sick and tired of reporting to their local DNR officers the cattle and yard animals they were losing to wolf attacks. DNR investigations took place but very little was done to curb those attacks. Being an Endangered Species in this State wolf was given a free pass to do what they wanted when they wanted. Cattle grower were simply reimbursed by our DNR for their lose. After a while the cattle growers just had enough. Took matters into their own hands. Endangered species or not. "Shoot, Shovel, & Shut up." became a catch phrase many farmers & cattle growers chose to use too resolve their wolf problems. As the wolf population grows all your game species will decline. Wolves just don't kill the weak and lame. They kill everything period!! That's what they do. Clear an area of most if not all game animals and then attack domestic animals and cattle. When those attack become too risky. They move on to another piece of land and repeat that same scenario. That is what our forefathers knew and took action to purposely eliminate that situation from happening by trapping, shooting, poising, whatever it took. Well I guess we forgot our history and are due to repeat. Good thing this State has so many common sense folks that look to the future and don't want to re-live the past concerning our Grey Wolf population. Perhaps Idaho or Utah is more willing to put up with those shenanigans. You folks out West may indeed have your very own “Howling for Wolves’ “ office opening real soon in your State. Their at that closing up for business threshold now in my State. And will need a new home.

S/S
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Old June 4, 2013, 12:06 AM   #5
Buzzcook
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Quote:
I am concerned that wolf reintroduction is another not-so-well-thought-out federal program with unintended consequences.
Well first you have to prove that thesis.
Quote:
What can we East Coast hunters do to help the states get control over their wolves?
Support the various University and DF&W departments that are working on wolf management programs.
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Old June 4, 2013, 01:35 AM   #6
MarkDozier
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Wolf management is a 30-30 heavy just behind the ear.
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Old June 4, 2013, 04:25 AM   #7
Geezerbiker
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The way I see it, wolves are a shoot on sight pest. Then drag it into the brush. It it has a radio collar, shoot that too.

They say there's no wolves in NW Oregon but I'm sure I saw one a couple years ago in Yamhill county when I was trying to deer hunt (on a good day deer hunting it tough here...) If I had gotten a chance, I would have plugged it.

Tony
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Old June 4, 2013, 11:57 AM   #8
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Quote:
I am concerned that wolf reintroduction is another not-so-well-thought-out federal program with unintended consequences.
You are absolutely spot on Sir. Back in the early 70s. The Feds wanted to reintroduce grey wolves back into the wilds of this State to levels the wolves held before they were nearly exterminated here. Back in the late 1800s. The Feds refused /or chose not to keep a watchful eye on their pet project. To make sure their dogs remained unharmed they created the Endangered Species Listing. Which involve heavy fines and jail time if the general public is caught destroying one of these animals for any reason. Well the Feds original intention was the let the Grey Wolfs population grow uninhibited to a figure near 1700 Max population in the Northern 1/3 of this State. Today they encompass nearly 1/2 of this State. After 35 plus years. Doing absolutely nothing to control the Grey Wolfs population. The Feds original intentions of 1700 MAX turned out to be a shade off its mark. The new figure made public here a couple years back. It's been said the Grey wolfs population is around 3000. But you ask any MN resident or DNR officer off the cuff who lives or patrols up near the Canadian Boarder. Each will tell you the count is way closer to 5000. Our deer and moose herds have suffered dramatically here because of this stupid Program of Reintroduction. Before the Grey Wolf became a serious problem of their over abundance. Hunting big game in this State. A hunter had outstandingly good chances of harvesting their animal before the Wolf Reintroduction was initiated. These days it hardly pays to buy a Big Game License anymore. The only reason I buy a license is knowing some of its money goes towards the making of habitat for other game species here.

At the behest of so many MN hunting organizations and our States DNR. One Federal Senator Amy Klobuchar a Democrat took on the effort to remove the Grey Wolf from Endangered Species Listing concerning this State. Not in any way a easy task to do. But through her persistence and tenacity she managed to get the job done. Thus opening a door to our States DNR officials to offer a reasonable way over time to control the dogs over population. We had our very first licensed Grey Wolf harvest last year. And another wolf season is being considered for this year as well.
Although I like to think I'm a Independent and more conservative than not. Senator Klobuchar will always have my gratitude for a job well done in this annoying wolf circumstance. And a guaranteed vote from this house always.

S/S
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Old June 4, 2013, 04:13 PM   #9
ZeroJunk
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This past elk hunting season my group killed two wolves and one elk.

I have been elk hunting in Montana for close to 30 years, but I think we are about done with it.

The difference in the number of elk we see has been dramatic.

I have always used an outfitter and our group has put a ton of money in to an economy that relies heavily on out of state hunters.

At this rate I'm not sure how that can continue.
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Old June 5, 2013, 04:47 AM   #10
Geezerbiker
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I think that's what the feds are trying to achieve. Destroying hunting is one more way to dig at us gun owners.

Tony
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Old June 6, 2013, 12:16 AM   #11
BuckRub
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I'd love it if we had some wolves here, they'd be fun to hunt.
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Old June 6, 2013, 09:24 AM   #12
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It's (wolves and their protection) all about that warm fuzzy feeling city people get knowing that somewhere out in those deep dark woods of the West, lives the "endangered wolf and her poor little pups".

Most who support the wolf re-introduction have never, and will never, see a wolf. Most have never and will never see a moose and her calf in the spring. Most have never and will never care that the poor moose is soon to be the next endangered species.

When it happens, those city folk will have another species to feel all warm and fuzzy about!
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Old July 7, 2013, 05:48 PM   #13
dahermit
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...Remind the parties involved that they introduced a non-native species...
According to Wikipedia, the grey wolves introduced at Yellowstone were a native species, albeit not the dominate species of Wolf that was eradicated. Specifically, Wikipedia stated that the Plains Wolf and Mackenzie Valley Wolf's range overlapped the extinct Northern Rocky Mountain Wolf's range.
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Old July 7, 2013, 06:35 PM   #14
t4terrific
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No More Moose Out West?

Every last wolf should be exterminated.
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Old July 7, 2013, 07:31 PM   #15
alex0535
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My sister out in Utah mentioned seeing moose out there a bit east of Salt Lake, wandering around in the town she lives.

Moose are still out there, I can't say much about the wolf populations and their affect on moose populations.
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Old July 7, 2013, 07:54 PM   #16
Old Stony
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I recently read an article that stated that Yellowstone has lost 1/3 of it's elk population to the wolves. On a trip through Cody Wy. I noticed some bumper stickers touting their "shoot and release" program for wolves. Good idea!
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Old July 7, 2013, 08:44 PM   #17
Ibmikey
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I occasionally have moose wander through the yard to drink from the lake. The big critters can disappear just as fast, have not seen a wolf for the "shoot and release" program.
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