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Old May 30, 2013, 12:03 PM   #1
rebs
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about a 4 foot flame out the end of my barrel.

I increased my load for 55 gr fmjbt to 24.9 of H335, on the jug it says 25.3 so I am still under max with no pressure signs. But I am getting a huge fireball out the end of the barrel,, is this unburned powder ? Its a 16" 1 in 8 twist barrel. Do you guys get a fireball out of your AR's ?
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Old May 30, 2013, 05:03 PM   #2
Paul B.
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Dunno whether to laugh or cry. Welcome to the world of the H335 flamethrower.

Seroiusly, many years back, 1973 to be exact I bought a Remington M660 in .308and the one load manal I had back then (Lyman) showed H335 to give the highest velocity. I guess it was high but no personally owned chronographs back then. (How did we manage?) I got a roughly 4 foot wide fire ball from it's 22" barrel and the muzzle blast felt and sounded like some kind of concussion. I made my longest shot on a deer with that rifle, 427 paces, deer running as fast as it's wounds would allow. My hunting partner hit it and it took off. It was at best a lucky shot.
So, I'm betting you get the ball of fire and I'd also bet the muzzle blast it extremely sharp.
Here's what I think. I won't say I'm right but it's what I think. I think H335 generates a great deal of very hot gas when ignited in a cartridge, especially if it's a very stiff load. (Mine were) This very hot possibly super heated unburned gas ignites with a bright flash and loud report when it hits the oxygen rick outside air.
Funy thing is I used some to work up a hot 250 gr. bullet load in my .35 Whelen, got great velocity and accuracy but no flash or extra loud bang. IIRC, a hot gad will cool if it is allowed to expand so maybe that was why there wasn't the flash and bang from the Whelen. Not saying I'm right but that's my theory FWIW.
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Old May 30, 2013, 06:24 PM   #3
rebs
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Thank you for the reply.
Even with a milder load of 24.0 I still get the fireball and others at the range have said my gun is very loud. But I have about 10 lbs of H335 left to use up.
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Old May 30, 2013, 06:36 PM   #4
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Might want to try a different load with a heavier bullet to provide for a little more combustion time while the bullet's still in the barrel. Perhaps a 63 grain pill?
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Old May 30, 2013, 06:37 PM   #5
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There is no harm in it, and you are under max. How is the accuracy?

I shoot a 25.0 grain load out of my bolt action. Though it has a 24 inch barrel. Not much of a flash. Though when I loaded up some 110 grain .308 in my Mosin with a starting load of it. There was a huge fireball. It was the flash of an M44. The recoil was minimal though, and it shot OK.
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Old May 30, 2013, 08:23 PM   #6
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Had the same issue with 748 in the 308. That's the balls for you.
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Old May 30, 2013, 09:19 PM   #7
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BL-C is another crowd pleaser.
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Old May 30, 2013, 11:48 PM   #8
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I was thinking he could try a heavier bullet as well. Should slow that flame thrower down.
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Old May 31, 2013, 05:15 AM   #9
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The problem for me using heavier bullets is I already have 1500 55 gr bullets and I have about 10 lbs of H335 to use up. The accuracy is excellent, so I guess I'll just shoot it as long as it won't hurt the rifle.
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Old May 31, 2013, 06:16 AM   #10
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about a 4 foot flame out the end of my barrel.

I run H335 in my .204 w a 32g bullet... Never really noticed a huge flame, but boy does it pop!
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Old May 31, 2013, 09:11 AM   #11
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Have you tried backing it down .5 grain? I'd load up 5-10 rounds and see what happens to your accuracy then.
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Old May 31, 2013, 10:47 AM   #12
rebs
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I loaded a few with less powder 24.5, 24.0. 23.8, 23.6 and will try them tomorrow.
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Old May 31, 2013, 12:11 PM   #13
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Loading lower may make the flame larger instead of smaller. Less powder reaches a lower peak pressure, a lower peak pressure (generally) results in less powder burn, more unburnt powder results in a bigger fireball.

What you need to eliminate the fireball is a faster powder for a shorter barrel. My QuickLoad isn't handy at the moment but I can run some numbers later and see what it says.
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Old May 31, 2013, 12:31 PM   #14
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Cool!

I bought a bunch of WC844 (kissin' cousin of H335) and 55 grain bullets to use in my 16" Mini-14, and haven't got to try it yet because of the weather. I'm goin' stir-crazy trapped inside every day; can't even get the grass cut. 4 foot fireball and loud concussion sounds like fun.
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Old May 31, 2013, 01:42 PM   #15
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I prefer H335 in my AR (16" M4), but don't have the big flash you are talking about by any stretch.

One thing to look at is the quality of your flash hider. If you have the milspec bird cage, those don't hide flash all that well - especially compared to some more modern and better designs.

I can't remember my load right off the top of my head, but I"m also shooting 62 grain projectiles, so that may have something to do with it. I prefer Varget in my bolt action and it produces no flash at all out of 22" barrel.
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Old May 31, 2013, 04:11 PM   #16
TATER
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I'm Pretty-Sure I ran 25 grains of 335, I don't recall a fireball though.
I use W-748 in all my plink'en .223.
For what I consider my Good-Stuff, I use Varget.

Last edited by TATER; May 31, 2013 at 04:18 PM.
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Old May 31, 2013, 06:03 PM   #17
rebs
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Mine is a target barrel with a target crown and no flash hinder
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Old May 31, 2013, 06:33 PM   #18
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No, unburnt powder cannot make a flame.
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Old June 1, 2013, 06:30 AM   #19
rebs
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Quote:
No, unburnt powder cannot make a flame.
then where does the flame come from ? I guess others were right it is inherit for H335 powder
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Old June 1, 2013, 07:09 AM   #20
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I was being a smart a**. Powder has to be burning to cause a flame. Unburnt powder just sits there and does nothing. I assume you mean powder not ignited initially by the primer but that ignites as it is expelled out of the barrel.
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Old June 1, 2013, 08:48 AM   #21
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I wonder if a magnum primer would do the same with that powder.
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Old June 1, 2013, 09:54 AM   #22
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The root of the problem is the lack of flash inhibitor in the powder. The only real solution is a different powder or a high quality flash hider to reduce the fireball. A longer barrel that allow the powder a full burn will help but not full solve the issue. End result is get a bag of marshmallows to roast or a good flash hider and enjoy.
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Old June 1, 2013, 10:44 AM   #23
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Unless you were in the highly unlikely situation of a defensive fight at night I would not worry about the flame. If you are getting the velocity and accuracy you want from that particular load what does the flame matter? If you want to see a really outstanding flame at night try a 44 magnum pistol loaded to the max. Absolutely stunning!
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Old June 1, 2013, 11:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
If you want to see a really outstanding flame at night try a 44 magnum pistol loaded to the max. Absolutely stunning!
Or a .45 Colt with a full charge of blackpowder
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Old June 1, 2013, 12:08 PM   #25
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Or a .45 Colt with a full charge of blackpowder -zxcvbob


Fireball, nice boom and a cloud of blue smoke! Just doesn't get much better than that.
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