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Old May 26, 2013, 01:27 AM   #1
PITT5150
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Sig Sauer M11-A1

I can't seem to get this handgun out of my mind. I'm in the process of getting a Glock Gen4 G17 and a Glock Gen4 G26 but I keep thinking about that damn Sig M11-A1. Should I pass on the Glocks and get the Sig. I already have the Gen4 Glocks G19 and G34 and was gonna complete the series. Decisions, decisions...
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Old May 26, 2013, 02:12 AM   #2
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While the M11-A1 is really just a hybrid of the P228 and P229, I rather like it. Some like it less because it has the P229 forged slide rather than the P228 stamped slide. I actually prefer the forged slide, so that's not an issue for me.

As for whether you should get it rather than two Glocks...if you're looking from a functionality perspective, probably not. A G17 and a G26 gives you a great pair of weapons that can share supplies while filling multiple roles.

But, if you really want that slick, tough-as-nails Sig experience and you're just going to be sitting there staring at your Glocks wishing they were the Sig, get the Sig.

Also keep in mind they are different trigger systems. The Glocks are Glock's "safe action" DAO, whereas the M11-A1 is a DA/SA with a Short Reset Trigger. If you're not used to one of them, that may be an issue.

Either way you're getting quality. At this point be honest with yourself about your preference.
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Old May 26, 2013, 04:58 AM   #3
bac1023
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Sig Sauer M11-A1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LockedBreech View Post
While the M11-A1 is really just a hybrid of the P228 and P229, I rather like it. Some like it less because it has the P229 forged slide rather than the P228 stamped slide. I actually prefer the forged slide, so that's not an issue for me.
The P229's slide is cast, not forged.
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Old May 26, 2013, 05:47 AM   #4
LockedBreech
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Sig Sauer M11-A1

Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
The P229's slide is cast, not forged.
Well I'll be. I had just been talking about the P229 on one of the many gun forums I post on, and all sorts of folks said it was forged, which was why they preferred the older 228.

I stand rightly corrected for not doing my own research.
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Old May 26, 2013, 05:53 AM   #5
bac1023
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No big deal. Either way, its a very strong slide. It was developed when the 40S&W was introduced.

I believe the P229 was the first gun Sig built in the States. Its was never built in Germany.
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Old May 26, 2013, 07:25 AM   #6
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Slide is not cast. Milled stainless steel finished in nitron.

The original P229s were German frames with US milled stainless steel slides. 100% German P229s with triple proof marks do exist.
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Old May 26, 2013, 07:34 AM   #7
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Glocks and Sigs remind me of girls that I have known. Glocks are perky, fun and most importantly, easy.

But a Sig...that's a gun you can bring home to momma.
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Old May 26, 2013, 07:35 AM   #8
bac1023
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Sig Sauer M11-A1

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVsig View Post
Slide is not cast. Milled stainless steel finished in nitron.

The original P229s were German frames with US milled stainless steel slides. 100% German P229s with triple proof marks do exist.
I always thought they started as a casting first. Either way, I know they weren't forged.

That being said, I don't buy American Sigs. I own quite a few, but all of mine are Swiss, German, or West German except for my 1911 and SigPro.

I'm not much for American Sigs at all.
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Old May 26, 2013, 12:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
I already have the Gen4 Glocks G19 and G34
I've gone through several types of pistols in my life and to be quite honest my preferences are a very short list. If you have a friend with a p229 i'd recommend shooting their pistol first to determine if it really is your cup of tea.


Quote:
Slide is not cast. Milled stainless steel finished in nitron.
+1
They just use a block of steel.

They've also gone through different variations of milled slides.
http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDe...stainless.aspx
Note the slide serrrations in the link above which are half the slides height.
http://sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDe...ced-elite.aspx
Vs the above link with full height slide serrations.
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Old May 26, 2013, 12:31 PM   #10
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Amazing how often bad info gets around. Indeed they are milled, should be pretty common knowledge as they advertise that fact in every single article they appear in.

Every time I go to my lgs I pick up and handle an M11-A1. There is no reason I need one, I've owned original P228s. But it is a nice looking handgun. The full height serrations on the slide looks so much better than the stepped P229 slides of old, at least IMO.
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Old May 26, 2013, 12:47 PM   #11
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Bac,

Why the avoidance of American Sigs?

Just seeking information/opinion. I have limited experience with Sigs...don't even know where mine were made.

This German vs US issue always comes up with Sigs, but I don't know why the distinction.

Thx!
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Old May 26, 2013, 12:58 PM   #12
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There is some contention that German SIGs are of better quality than American SIGs. I disagree, I think it has to do more with time of manufacture than the maker. I've had some late 90s American made SIGs that I thought were the equal of German SIGs. I've seen some of the newer SIGs have some issues, but it's mostly cosmetic and not so much with function. YMMV.
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Old May 26, 2013, 01:01 PM   #13
Shadi Khalil
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Sig Sauer M11-A1

The M11 is high up on my list of guns I want but have no use for.
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Old May 26, 2013, 01:16 PM   #14
bac1023
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Quote:
Bac,

Why the avoidance of American Sigs?
No real reason, other than the fact they don't appeal to me. Its not a quality issue for me. The rails and color schemes have just turned me off.

I prefer the old stamped and welded West German models. Here's my P226, P220, P228, and P225.

...all West German and all 9mm, just the way I like them.


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Old May 26, 2013, 01:21 PM   #15
TunnelRat
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Quote:
I prefer the old stamped and welded West German models.
There was also a run of pistols marked just "Germany", not "West Germany", that were stamped slides.

The balance of the carbon steel stamped slides is definitely something worth noting, lighter too.
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Old May 26, 2013, 01:27 PM   #16
bac1023
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Quote:
There was also a run of pistols marked just "Germany", not "West Germany", that were stamped slides.

The balance of the carbon steel stamped slides is definitely something worth noting, lighter too.
Yeah, I much prefer the stamped slides.

Yes, once Sig Sauer used up their W German marked slides, they did have some with just Germany. Actually, my shop has a P228 and a P226 both stamped "Made in Germany".

I also own a P220 in 45ACP that's stamped that way. I just didn't include it in the pic.
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Old May 26, 2013, 01:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
The Glocks are Glock's "safe action" DAO
C'mon now. Glocks are Single Action, you can't pull the trigger and cock the striker repeatedly. You need to cycle the slide. They are a SA with a long DA like pull. like XDs and M&Ps.

Now a sig can be a true DAO or a DA/SA or even a SA.
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Old May 26, 2013, 01:43 PM   #18
JHansenAK47
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Quote:
C'mon now. Glocks are Single Action, you can't pull the trigger and cock the striker repeatedly. You need to cycle the slide. They are a SA with a long DA like pull. like XDs and M&Ps.
They aren't classed as single action by the ATF they are considered double action because the striker although half cocked is cocked the rest of the way when the trigger is pulled. They aren't double action like a revolver but they aren't 100% cocked like a revolver in single action either. You can call it splitting hairs but considering that NYC issues glocks with no manual safety albeit with a heavier trigger poundage it does make a difference to a lawyer.
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Old May 26, 2013, 01:55 PM   #19
LockedBreech
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Sig Sauer M11-A1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom1956 View Post
C'mon now. Glocks are Single Action, you can't pull the trigger and cock the striker repeatedly. You need to cycle the slide. They are a SA with a long DA like pull. like XDs and M&Ps.

Now a sig can be a true DAO or a DA/SA or even a SA.
By including "safe-action" along with "DAO" I was hoping to avoid this exact debate by indicating that I knew the Glock DAO is not like a typical DAO. I still think DAO is a more accurate term for them than SA. The XD striker is fully tensioned, the Glock one needs the trigger pull to complete the tensioning.
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Old May 26, 2013, 02:48 PM   #20
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I wasn't trying to start an argument. I would've just went with safe action. Only reason I felt to comment on it was because a Sig is actually a DA.
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Old May 26, 2013, 03:35 PM   #21
LockedBreech
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Sig Sauer M11-A1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom1956 View Post
I wasn't trying to start an argument. I would've just went with safe action. Only reason I felt to comment on it was because a Sig is actually a DA.
No worries, the tone of my post reads as irritated but I wasn't. It's a relevant point.
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Old May 26, 2013, 05:23 PM   #22
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I believe the appeal is very much a result of the original M11 appealing to the U.S. SpecOps. community.

I've read several books and articles by JSOC operators that extol it's virtues. It is my undetstaqnding thast SIG-Sauer engineers worked hand in hand with the JSOC in develping this pistol. Form my limited knowledge of it, it appears to be a "perfected" version of the P226, a formidable service pistol in it's own right.

It's near the top of my "wish list." If it meets my expectations, it will replace my beloved P226 as my every day carry pistol.
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Old May 26, 2013, 06:32 PM   #23
ClydeFrog
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sig M11a1 9x19mm......

If you have the funds & want the M11a1 then go get it.
The Glock 19 Gen04 series 9mm won't go anywhere.

Get some Trijicon HD night sights. www.Trijicon.com

For holsters see the Bianchi UM84III nylon holster. It was designed for the milspec M11.

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Old May 26, 2013, 06:39 PM   #24
PITT5150
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The M11-A1 is bigger and heavier than my G19. I shoot striker fired pistols better than DA/SA. I really don't have a role for this pistol. There's no logical reason for me to own one...but I do. I want to master it's DA/SA trigger. I want to overcome the burden of carrying a bulkier, heavier pistol when its strapped to my waist. I want to because it's one good looking gun. Is this reason enough?
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Old May 27, 2013, 09:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
I believe the appeal is very much a result of the original M11 appealing to the U.S. SpecOps. community.

I've read several books and articles by JSOC operators that extol it's virtues. It is my undetstaqnding thast SIG-Sauer engineers worked hand in hand with the JSOC in develping this pistol. Form my limited knowledge of it, it appears to be a "perfected" version of the P226, a formidable service pistol in it's own right.

It's near the top of my "wish list." If it meets my expectations, it will replace my beloved P226 as my every day carry pistol.

As I have posted before the M11-A1 is nothing but Sig marketing hype!

No govt agency uses this configuration. The submitted it as a replacement for the M11 which is the US military contract designation for the P228 but no one has accepted it as of today IIRC. They need to get people out of the existing P228/M11 contract because of the cost to make them to the old spec is too high. They cannot make them inside the US because the tooling to make the older frame and the older stamped/folder carbon steel slide are nearing end of life and are in Germany, where IMHO all good Sigs should be made... LOL.

Sig created these guns for consideration. They took a non-railed P229 frame put a MIL-STD UID label of the standard-issue M11 and called it a M11-A1. They are now being sold to the public because they cannot sell them to the military because they have no takers for this new configuration. This is a frankengun IMHO. It has parts from all over the Sig line up. It has the SRT trigger which the P228/M11 never had, a milled stainless steel slide with full height slide serrations, phosphate parts so you can swim with your Sig and used the Mecgar 15 round P229 magazine to bump its capacity. You can covert a existing P228 or P229 into this gun at a much lower cost IMHO.

There is nothing new or special about this gun except for what Sig tells/sells you. I am a traditionalist when it comes to Sigs. If I wanted a P228 with a top heavy milled stainless steel slide I would buy a P229. They existed for years without a rail and can be had for much less than these instant collectibles/ fake military designation pistols.

If you love the configuration go for it just don't over pay. You can get a LNIB P229 and convert it to an SRT trigger and use Mecgars for a lot less than this thing is selling. Personally I will stick with my plain old P228.
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