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Old May 25, 2013, 09:13 AM   #1
Dearhunter61
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Hunting Auto loaders....

How many companies still make them? Who makes the best? I'm really talking about deer hunting or big game cartridges. Why don't more companies make them? What should someone's expectation be as far as accuracy from auto loaders?
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Old May 25, 2013, 09:31 AM   #2
PetahW
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Availability AFAIK, and ranking IMHO:

Benelli MR-1 (same maker as BAR)
Browning BAR (same maker as Benelli)
Merkel SR-1
Remington 750
Remington R-25 (AR-type)
Winchester Super X



.
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Old May 25, 2013, 10:47 AM   #3
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I could be wrong, but, I thought Browning and Winchester Semi's on Bar pattern, FNAR, Bar, WinX were made by FN. Benelli, and Beretta were made by Baretta. Beretta could have taken over all gun makers in Europe as far as I know.
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Old May 25, 2013, 11:25 AM   #4
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Don't forget the Rem 7400. Not sure if they are still being produced but plenty of them out there. I can get 1 3/4 inch groups from mine easily (30-06). It's gotten to be my go to gun for deer season since hogs started showing up. Also have an A/market 10 rnd mag. It has been very reliable for me and knocks heck outta anything here in Texas.
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Old May 25, 2013, 12:58 PM   #5
AllenJ
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Just my opinion and I hope I'm not ticking anyone off but the standard for hunting self feeders is, and has been for a long time, the Browning BAR. I know two different people who hunt with them and both really like them. I've got to shoot one in 30/06 and it proved to me to have more than accecptable hunting accuracy, shooting inch and a half groups at 100 yards.
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Old May 25, 2013, 01:42 PM   #6
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They are nice but expensive and heavy.
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Old May 25, 2013, 02:31 PM   #7
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Lots of companies make hunting autoloaders. They call them AR-15s, AR-10s, LAR-8s, OBRs, SR-25s, JP-7s, LRP-07s, and N6s.
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Old May 25, 2013, 03:37 PM   #8
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Not much need for an autoloader when hunting...unless you're Ted Nugent slamming hogs from a chopper...

It's still pretty much a bolt gun market when that's the sole purpose of the rifle.
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Old June 13, 2013, 02:02 AM   #9
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I dunno 'bout that

Primarily bolt guns? That may depend very much on what part of the country you're in and what is your quarry.

I can say w/ much certainty that the traditional auto rifle is still very popular in this area, about a 50/50 split between autos and bolt rifles. We hunt whitetails. Folks that can afford it hunt the BAR, for others its the Remington in all its various models. I've never seen any Euro autos afield.

A fast second shot on deer pushed by hounds, a moving buck chasing does, on a deer missed in thick brush due to clipping a limb, , or the opportunity to take a second animal (legal here) all have folks choosing auto's.

What I see very little of these days, is pump rifles and levers. The econo bolt rifle has taken their place. But auto shootes are still abundant. Here anyway.
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Old June 14, 2013, 09:20 AM   #10
cat9x
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zoomie said it well, there are more autoloading hunting rifles now than ever before. AR15's can be had in a multitude of adequate hunting calibers for larger game. 6.5 Grendel, 6.8SPC, etc.

AR10 type rifles can be had in a host of even more powerful hunting cartridges.
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Old June 14, 2013, 09:40 AM   #11
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Might just by my opinion, but I think the BAR is appropriately named, as it sets the bar as far as hunting autoloaders for deer cartridges. I don't currently own one, but I have shot them from 243's to 338's and they are a great hunting rifle. The Remington's can generally be capable of holding the group on a paper plate at 100 yds.........okay already, there might be some exceptions out there. Some of the Yugo's were good cars too !
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Old June 14, 2013, 10:12 AM   #12
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"Hunting automatics” meaning "rifles that don't look military?"Well that would be the Mini-14, the Ruger Deerfield (if you can find one) the BAR (both versions) the Benelli R1 and the Remington offerings 740,742 7400 and so on.

However it must be remembered that around the early part of the 1900s that bolt action was thought of as a “military arm” and it took off in popularity to a point that most hunters don’t seem to know or care that the roots and in some cases the actions and calibers were 100% military.

So what?

I hunt with a hand made flintlock,
I hunt with a Ruger #1 9.3X74R
I hunt with ARs (6.8 SPC) and AKs
I have hunted with an M-14 and an FN FAL
I hunt with my Benelli R-1
I have hunted with my M-1 Garand.
I hunt with bolt actions in 270 and 375H&H as well as 30-06 and 25-06.
I have hunted with lever actions from Browning, Marlin, Winchester and Savage.
In nearly every case I have fired one shot per animal.

It’s interesting to me that the last time I needed to make a quick 2nd shot I was hunting with the Ruger#1, and I still killed my deer on the 2nd shot. I reloaded that single shot rifle and got off the 2nd shot in about 3 seconds. I was embarrassed at rushing the 1st shot and missing, but proud of making the 2nd shot at a running deer before he got away.
(would still have been better not to miss the 1st shot.

So far with the autos I have fired one shot per animal, so I am of the opinion that for hunting it doesn’t make a lot of difference which type of rifle you carry. What matters is your ability to hunt.
If you want to hunt with an FN FAL or a flintlock, please do so --- and I’d hope you have the blessings of your fellow hunters.
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Old June 14, 2013, 11:28 AM   #13
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I have been seeing a wide range of tv shows where people are using ar based rifles for hunting. there are a number of hunting based shows that are now using ar based rifles in many different calibers for many different types of game profiling not only the accuracy but also the knockdown power of these rifles.

I have also seen a number of programs about life in Alaska and the wild north. these are not "gun shows" like hunting programs" but about life and the hardships of living in the north and the 223 ar type rifles seem to be very popular in these areas for subsistence hunting and protection while out in the wilds.

it seems that unlike what the media reports that these "black" rifles are only good for war, these programs are showing that these guns are becoming very popular for hunting and surviving in the wildest places in north America. I believe more and more states are adding the 223 cartridge to the list of calibers available for hunting.
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Old June 14, 2013, 11:50 AM   #14
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I got my Remington 742 in .243 for pretty cheap and it shoots 1 1/2 inch groups all day with factory ammo.
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Old June 14, 2013, 12:44 PM   #15
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Why aren't there tube fed centerfire autos?
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Old June 14, 2013, 03:45 PM   #16
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Tube magazines are a bit of a problem with auto rifles that have any amount of recoil.

You see, as the rifle moves sharply rearward the rounds are jumping "forward" in the moment of recoil. The round don't actually "jump forward", but in fact stand still, as the rifle moves backward around them.

The action would have to be slow enough to allow the rounds to be pushed back into position for the next round to feed.

A stronger spring is not a good answer as the rounds them get battered but the movement and force of both recoil and the "reset' of the rounds coming back against the cartridge stop. If the spring is strong enough to jeep them from moving at all, the recoil then sets the bullets back into the necks of the shells.

A cartridge interrupter could be designed into the system to prevent the round closest to the action from moving under recoil, but that still leaves the problem of the rounds in front of that one jumping back and forth in the magazine. As anyone that has used a Kinetic bullet pullet knows, repeated taps will move a bullet and if the crimp is firm enough then it’s hard on the bullet noses.

Lastly, any tubular magazine puts the bullet of one shell on the primer of another so that’s why lever actions most often use flat nose bullets. Such a bullet shape is a potential problem to designers of automatics to feed as quickly as they must from such an action.
It’s possible, but tricky and expensive. Or perhaps the action could be made to use a helix magazine as some of the old Remington Pumps did. That would solve one of the problems (the bullet to primer one) but we are still left with the other problems mentioned earlier.

In short, it’s a set of problems that could be overcome if the market was there to demand such a gun, but as of now the demand is not enough to justify the research and development of such a rifle.
Too bad.
It would be a nice set up if it was made to work reliable and if accuracy could be maintained in the finished firearm..

Last edited by Wyosmith; June 15, 2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old June 15, 2013, 05:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Why aren't there tube fed centerfire autos?
Because shooters wouldn't tolerate the round-nosed bullets that this would require. The only alternative would be plastic tipped bullets like the Hornady LeverEvolution.
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Old June 15, 2013, 07:24 PM   #18
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What's wrong with flat nosed bullets? Lever actions have been using them since the beginning. Not the best, but who cares. I'd love a .45 Colt semi auto. Or a .357 mag or .44 mag. A .35 would be cool to see too. .45-70 would be awesome as well.
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Old June 15, 2013, 08:29 PM   #19
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the reason that there are so few autoloaders in non-military cartridges is because there is so little demand for them. a hunter that NEEDS fast follow up shots needs something else as lot more;PRACTICE.

if you are constantly losing game because of improper shot placement then you need to go back to the drawing board and become a better shot... then the idea of a heavy, semi auto for hunting just becomes an almost ludicrous notion. I would rather take one well placed shot with a 6.5 LB bolt action 30-06 than I would taking 2 quick shots with a 9.5lb semi auto 30-06.
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Old June 15, 2013, 10:45 PM   #20
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I don't think follow up shoots are that big of deal unless you're hunting something that also hunts you. I'd take a lowly 94 win 30-30 over a AR 223 for hunting anyday. .223 is a bushy taled limb rat round. I'm not saying it won't work,it's just not a solid choise in my opinion. The 7.62x39 is the bottom of the dear hunting rounds in my opinion. Anything over dear size is simply to big for the. 223 unless you're a very good shot or very close or
both.

Ok ok tiny bullet fans unite. I'm ready for my flogging now. Thank you sir may I have anyother. Tell me how great the 17 hmr is or how the 22-250 is the best hunting round ever devised.

Just my opinion.


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Old June 16, 2013, 09:08 AM   #21
Orion6
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BAR's are exceptional rifles. My father has an aluminum receivered .308 that will outshoot most bolt guns we own. It has never hiccupped once.
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Old June 16, 2013, 02:37 PM   #22
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The Benelli is great, a little spaceage-lookin but a performer.

the Sauer 303 is another great one.
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Old June 16, 2013, 02:37 PM   #23
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The primary reason I think you don't see more is 1) weight, 2)cost, 3) bolt guns are usually more accurate. I have a BAR and it is a very good rifle but it is heavy and I don't ever plan on more than 1 shot. I don't even work the bolt on my gun after the shot most of the time. Not bragging, I just don't take risky shots.
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Old June 16, 2013, 02:53 PM   #24
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Publius I guess the hunting scene is a little bit different US vs EU. for driven hunts a semi is great.
for bear hunts to, especially with a dog it is close,
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Old June 16, 2013, 04:13 PM   #25
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I don't know How many companies still make them. But as far as who makes the best you would be hard pressed to do better than a Browning Bar. I had a Safari model in .270win. It would hold moa out to 300yds. with good ammo. It was stolen about 3 years ago with a VX3 4.5-14x50 scope mounted on It.

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