The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 23, 2013, 08:10 AM   #1
robctwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2002
Location: Albany, Oregon
Posts: 644
German kids first time shooting

The guy I practice law with is a high school wrestling coach. A German all star team was spending a couple days in Corvallis, Or and the weather turned normal, wet and damp. They decided to head for a local farm to do a little shooting. None of the kids had ever touched a gun.

I sent a few guns and some reloads, I was booked all day and could not join them.

They apparently liked the Ruger 20 gauge, 10/22, the STI Ranger II in 9mm and the Rossi Puma '92 45 Colt the best. The pictures relate what we all know, shooting is FUN.


Not the best trigger safety here.









robctwo is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 08:11 AM   #2
robctwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2002
Location: Albany, Oregon
Posts: 644
More fun











robctwo is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 08:12 AM   #3
robctwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2002
Location: Albany, Oregon
Posts: 644
and more fun





robctwo is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 09:01 AM   #4
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,192
We've got some real issues with muzzle discipline in the first picture, and the guy with the 1911 in the 4th picture is asking for slide bite.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 09:06 AM   #5
robctwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2002
Location: Albany, Oregon
Posts: 644
Yes, I wish I had been there.
robctwo is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 09:11 AM   #6
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,877
"We've got some real issues with muzzle discipline in the first picture"

Not surprising, consider that, as Rob said, none of them had ever touch a real gun before and, as such, likely had very little in the way of safety and handling instruction.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 09:14 AM   #7
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,877
Merged multiple threads.

Please don't start multiple threads on the same subject. Just add a new post to your exsiting thread with the additional pictures.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 09:29 AM   #8
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,844
"We've got some real issues with muzzle discipline in the first picture"

We sure do. On the other hand, we have some even bigger issues with some really happy kids. The look on the face of the boy in post #2 -- priceless. They're ruined for life, I tell ya -- ruined!

__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 09:38 AM   #9
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,537
I'm glad they had some real fun and a positive experience but I don't think there IS a bigger issue than muzzle control. I don't blame the kids but somebody should have corrected them before that picture was taken. There's at least 4 kids with their fingers on the trigger and at least two guns that appear to be pointed directly at people, one of which MIGHT have a finger on the trigger.

Fun and positive introductions to firearms is one thing, major safety issues are quite another. That could have become a very non-positive experience in the blink of an eye.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 10:15 AM   #10
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 5,029
It's always good to see youngsters being introduced to the world of guns.
But in this instance, it looks like the folks doing the instructing could use some instructions.
Oh well, all that ends well...........
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 12:01 PM   #11
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
I looks like the poor muzzle discipline mostly revolves around the handguns in the first picture. The rifles appear to be held correctly (except the bottom left one possibly).

It's probably because the ones with handguns wanted their firearm visibly in the picture to show their friends/relatives, on top of not knowing proper safety. Not excusing their actions, just a perception.

Edit: Love to see new firearms fans made every day
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 12:23 PM   #12
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,771
Cool! Looks like everyone had fun. Now to get some English kids out there shooting.....
Skans is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 12:33 PM   #13
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,844
Brian, you're right, of course. There are some very scary things going on in that first photo. Part of the problem may have been that there were just two adults and 13 kids -- with another grownup or two, it would've been easier to supervise and instruct that many. Of course, getting teenage boys to listen isn't always the easiest thing, either.
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 02:16 PM   #14
southjk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2012
Location: Memphis
Posts: 423
Love seeing new shooters being introduced to the sport. Not sure if where they live they are able to buy guns but lets hope they can.

Now, you knew, you just had to know that people were going to pick apart every picture to make sure everyone was doing everything right. Didn't you?
southjk is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 02:31 PM   #15
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 2,703
Well, the lad in picture number 5 is going to be squeezing that trigger for an awfully long time, with the hammer in that position!

"Wow, this gun has a reaaaaally heavy trigger!!"
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 02:40 PM   #16
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by southjk
Now, you knew, you just had to know that people were going to pick apart every picture to make sure everyone was doing everything right. Didn't you?
When it comes to gun safety, yeah, we are.

This isn't playing video games the right way. This is literally life and death.

That kid in the group picture, holding the 1911, 4th from the left in the back row. That gives me the chills. The kid to his left isn't much better.

Like I said, it's great that they had fun. I always like to hear of positive introductions to our sport. They were probably kept very safe when they were shooting, as in the other pictures.

That first one though, that's scary as hell.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 03:02 PM   #17
manta49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2011
Location: N Ireland. UK.
Posts: 1,258
Quote:
Cool! Looks like everyone had fun. Now to get some English kids out there shooting.....
The issue with kids and people in general in England and Germany is not getting firearms or having access to firearms, more that there just is not the same interest in firearms and shooting that there is in America. Among my friends and colleagues very few have firearms or any interest in firearms.
manta49 is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 03:02 PM   #18
KMAX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,061
I blew up the photo and can't say definitely that any of the kids had a finger on the trigger. Muzzle discipline was not all that bad for a staged photo of a large group of kids, could have been better. It seems several assumptions have been made. These kids seem to handle their firearms better than a lot of "experienced" adults I see at the range. I am not saying their handling could not have been better, but it could easily have been worse. Anyway it is cool to introduce these kids to the shooting sport.
__________________
This is my gun. There are many like her, but this one is mine.

I'm not old. I'm CLASSIC!
KMAX is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 03:09 PM   #19
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 2,703
Quote:
The issue with kids and people in general in England and Germany is not getting firearms or having access to firearms, more that there just is not the same interest in firearms and shooting that there is in America. Among my friends and colleagues very few have firearms or any interest in firearms.
I'd bet that most kids, certainly boys, would like to have a crack at shooting if given the chance, but I agree that amongst adults there is a sizeable proportion that seems indifferent to guns.

To be fair, I was curious, but not especially engrossed by guns, until I fired some at a local range as part of my Dad's birthday present.

Since then my "condition" has deteriorated considerably and I can probably be classified as beyond help...
__________________
You cannot wake someone who is pretending to sleep. Stop pretending. Wake up.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 03:55 PM   #20
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,617
I have to agree with the comments on the first picture. If I commented, I'd just be repeating what everyone else has said.
Not sure of the relevency but about three months ago while at the range I was aproached by the Rangemaster with a problem. He had a group of Japanese gentleman who wanted to shoot some guns. Thee wee two Americans who furnished the firearms but realy had much of a clue a the guns were borrowed. The rangemaster knew that I was the firearms instructor in the Hunter Ed program so he asked if I would help out? I said OK and as you know, in the Japanese culture, if you're going to teach, you must demonstrate your skill first. I got to shoot all kinds of nice toys including a cool tricked out 1911, several other semi-autos, including sever versions of civilian style "assault weapons". I had a great time doing it and those Japanese gentlemen were happier than hogs in mud on a hot day shooting those guns. As you know, firearm ownership in Japan is very highly restricted. I wouldn't mind doing that more often if the chance shows up.
Glad to see tose kids had fun. That's what it's all about.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 06:47 PM   #21
alex0535
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 781
German kids need to learn better muzzle control. Guns pointed in directions of heads and such. Its been said by multiple people, not saying anything that hasn't been said already.

Looks like they had fun, all's well that ends well I guess, glad no one got shot.
alex0535 is offline  
Old May 23, 2013, 10:02 PM   #22
Crankgrinder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 658
I cannot expect new shooters to know of the particulars of techniques and disciplines but i am glad each had a good experience and a safe one. I hope they spread the word that is known well to us all.
Crankgrinder is offline  
Old May 24, 2013, 08:03 AM   #23
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,771
Quote:
Among my friends and colleagues very few have firearms or any interest in firearms.
That's just because they've never had the opportunity to go to an outdoor range and try out different pistols and rifles. There's a reason why our ranges have so many guns to rent - many of the people renting them are from the UK.
Skans is offline  
Old May 24, 2013, 08:09 AM   #24
Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 3,637
Aren't Germans required to do two years of military service when they are a certain age? I would assume the German military still uses guns, so they would get exposure there.
__________________
Pilot
Pilot is offline  
Old May 24, 2013, 09:44 AM   #25
mwells72774
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2011
Posts: 168
Re: German kids first time shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
Aren't Germans required to do two years of military service when they are a certain age? I would assume the German military still uses guns, so they would get exposure there.

Close, the Swiss required it. Not sure if they still do.
mwells72774 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14198 seconds with 7 queries