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Old May 22, 2013, 09:20 PM   #1
Rob228
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Interesting find at the LGS (Sorry, didn't buy it, and forgot pics)

I have a thing for .243 rifles, my first centerfire ever was a Mossberg bolt action carbine that had been in the family for about 45 years, and my first build was a Remington 700 Varmint gun that I went all out on. Today while getting some sights installed on a pistol I noticed a rack of sporterized Mausers and went to take a look. One of them was a .243, originally built on a Swedish Mauser, but sporterized by Kimber. It had a synthetic stock, I checked the barrel and it was free floated all the way down to 1 inch in front of the action, and except for the cheap, beat up scope it was wearing it looked great. Came with Leupold rings though. They were wanting $425. The trigger was not phenomenal, but if I recall correctly there are some aftermarket Mauser triggers by Timney?

I do have a kid on the way, and have done some gun buying fairly recently, however this rifle had me thinking of which pistols I'd be willing to trade for it. I would however like to hear if anyone has experience with rifles customized by Kimber. I do have an 8400 in .325 so I have some experience with Kimber's own rifles, but I never had any idea that they were building these.

When I have a LOT of ammo, and dies, it is pretty hard to say no to another .243
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Old May 22, 2013, 11:40 PM   #2
taylorce1
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They were sporterized by Kimber of Oregon, not the same Kimber rifle company around today. The Swede is a M96 action lacking a lot of safety features of the M98 Mauser, and one I wouldn't trust to operate at .243 pressures. You're better off not buying, especially if for a young childs first rifle. $425 isn't a good deal on that rifle when you can pick up a new Rem 700 ADL for the same price, throw in another $100 and you have a Savage M11 TH with a Nikon scope.

Congratulations on the baby btw! I guess I miss read your post I thought you were looking at this for your child. It would be awhile until he/she were old enough to handle this rifle. Anyway for your child's sake keep your face intact by not shooting high pressure loads in any M93, 94, 95 or 96 Mauser action, they just weren't designed to operate at the pressures modern firearms do.
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Old May 23, 2013, 12:06 AM   #3
Scorch
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I agree. $425 is way too much.
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Old May 23, 2013, 12:26 AM   #4
Rob228
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Thanks guys, already having a pretty nice pair of .243's, you just saved me from trading some guns that I still do like :-)
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Old May 23, 2013, 03:07 PM   #5
Paul B.
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"They were sporterized by Kimber of Oregon, not the same Kimber rifle company around today. The Swede is a M96 action lacking a lot of safety features of the M98 Mauser, and one I wouldn't trust to operate at .243 pressures."

According to an article I read when those guns came out, most were built on M93 Spanish Mausers. I have handled a couple chambered to the .308 Win.
s far as them being too weak, Kimber had them pressure tested by the H.P. White Laboratory and they were declared to be safe at 7.62NATO pressure which it how the barrels were stamped. 7.62 NATO/.308 Win. I hardly think Kimber would be selling unsafe firearms. It's not their weakness in strength that is the problem. It's their not so good way of handling esaping gases, something that was corrected in the 1898 Mauser.
I do agree that the price is at least $100 to $150 too high. Easy way to tell which of the early Mausers it it is look at the bolt face. If the bottom of the bolt face is flat, it's an 1893. It it's rouns It could be either the 1895, 1896 or 1938 Mauser, the latter two being Swedes. The Swedes have a raised portion on the end of the striker that you can use to cock the rifle without opening the bold.
I do know for sure that the ones I looked at were 1893 rifles. Dunno if Kimber used all three actions or just the 93's but at least that's how you can tell which it which.
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Old May 23, 2013, 04:38 PM   #6
taylorce1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B.
According to an article I read when those guns came out, most were built on M93 Spanish Mausers. I have handled a couple chambered to the .308 Win.
s far as them being too weak, Kimber had them pressure tested by the H.P. White Laboratory and they were declared to be safe at 7.62NATO pressure which it how the barrels were stamped. 7.62 NATO/.308 Win. I hardly think Kimber would be selling unsafe firearms. It's not their weakness in strength that is the problem. It's their not so good way of handling esaping gases, something that was corrected in the 1898 Mauser.
Man this horse has been beat to death several times and someone always brings it back up. 7.62X51 NATO and .308 Win do not operate at the same SAAMI pressure.

Quote:
.308 Win vs. 7.62x51--The Straight Scoop
Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question "Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO one and the same?" The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win "Go Gauge" is 1.630" vs. 1.635" for the 7.62x51. The .308's "No-Go" dimension is 1.634" vs. 1.6405" for a 7.62x51 "No Go" gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62x51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: "[N]obody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 'headspace' dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule." You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62x51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max. For more information on this interesting topic, read the following articles: Gun Zone's 30 Caliber FAQ; Cruffler.com Technical Trivia, June 2001; and last, but not least, Steve Redgwell's .308 vs 7.62x51 Analysis, which really provides a definitive explanation. Reloaders should also note that military ammo often is made with a thicker web. Consequently the case capacity of 7.62x51 brass is usually less than that of commercial .308 brass. You may need to reduce recommended .308 Winchester loads by as much as 2 full grains, if you reload with military 7.62x51 brass, such as Lake City or IMI.
Complete story can be found at 6mmBR.com

Kimber of Oregon sporterized these rifles in a last ditch effort to keep from going bankrupt, it didn't work. There is no one left to go after if these rifles fail and injure or kill someone except the person who sold the rifle. AFAIK Kimber of Oregon only sporterized Swede M96 and M98, I could be wrong. M93 7.62 NATO rifles are more than likely arsenal rebarrels from South and Central America after they adopted the 7.62 NATO round, that got the .308 Win added to the stamp when they were imported to the U.S.

The thing is these rifles may never fail in a lifetime of service or one day they might blow up in your hand if running a modern cartridge like .243 or .308 Win through them. Best case scenario is you walk away with a new found perspective on life and a few scratches. Worse case loss of the use of a hand, fingers, or eye or combination there of. Worst case you catch a bolt that has sheared off the lugs and handle to the face and you die.

The thing is the small ring 93-96 Mauser actions were designed when smokeless propellants were in there infancy as well as modern metallurgy techniques for heat treating steel. Yes they lack the gas handling capabilities of a M98 as well as the third locking lug. These were designed into the M98 after one of the Mauser brothers lost an eye due to the weak gas handling capabilities of the previous small ring actions.

Most modern rifles are capable of operating in the 60,000 PSI range and modern cartridges are loaded to this level. However the 7X57 and 6.5X55 which were the most common chambers of the small ring Mausers only operate in the 50,000 PSI range. I shoot a Kimber of Oregon 6.5X55 and a rebarreled M93 Spanish Mauser in .300 Savage both of which operate in the 50K PSI range and I feel safe doing so, that said I would never try and load them up to 60K PSI and shoot them it isn't worth it to me to find out if they can handle the pressure or not.

Small ring failure
Sheared Bolt Lugs - Swedish Mauser
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