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Old May 21, 2013, 07:24 PM   #1
j3hill
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Single actions

I have a few single action guns. The mandatory Vaquero from 1982 with no transfer bar in 45LC, A HAWES western marshal from 1977 in 45LC again no transfer bar, a Uberti pre-cattle man from 1969 in .357 again no stupid transfer bar ..even a 80 dash super blackhawk in .44 ( so whats that 1969 or something? .but my favorite for some reason is my somewhat new EAA 4.75 inch bounty hunter with the stupid transfer bar in .357. It just feels better in my hand and seems to be the one that finds its self in my cowboy rig when I am doing chores around the house and fast drawing. Anyone else have a favorite that you thought you might hate?
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Old May 21, 2013, 08:03 PM   #2
James K
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IMHO, a transfer bar makes more sense in an SA than in a DA. DA revolvers usually have a rebound mechanism that withdraws the hammer and provides SOME protection against the hammer being struck and firing a chambered round, but traditional SA's don't even have that. So with the hammer "safety" notch next to useless, a transfer bar or hammer block is the only practical way to avoid making a six-shooter into a five-shooter.

Jim
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Old May 21, 2013, 09:01 PM   #3
newfrontier45
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The Vaquero was introduced in 1993 and they have always had transfer bars. As has every other Ruger cartridge-firing single action since 1973. The only Ubertis with a transfer bar were sold under the Beretta name.
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Old May 21, 2013, 09:42 PM   #4
Leejack
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I've had Blackhawks and a Single Six, love them, love them, love them!

The transfer bar makes good sense to me.
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Old May 21, 2013, 11:16 PM   #5
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If you are worried about carrying only five rounds, just double up.

Never thought I would hate them, and I was right. I will admit to not having had a chance to shoot the little guy yet, but look at it. How could you hate that?




Both Cimarrons, both .45 Colt. Model P and Thunderer
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Old May 22, 2013, 04:51 AM   #6
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A transfer bar is a complete positive for any revolver, especially a single action. For your Rugers, if you send it in to Ruger they will add the transfer bar for no charge. Well worth doing; otherwise it is unsafe to carry the weapon holstered unless you leave a round out of the chamber that is under the hammer. Much better to have the transfer bar.
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Old May 22, 2013, 08:17 AM   #7
Bob Wright
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As to transfer bars in single actions, I've come to accept the New Model Rugers that have them as original design. Never saw a retrofit Three Screw Ruger that I liked, though. The Ruger conversion is both unsightly and leaves an unacceptably rough action. I change these out as soon as possible.

These are a few of my Single Action .44s:



The middle gun in the bottom row was a .357 Magnum Three Screw that had the factory conversion. I removed the conversion to put it back like it was, then had the gun rebuilt to .44 Special.

I do like the Single Action revolver. Truly Sam Colt was inspired by God.

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Old May 22, 2013, 08:25 AM   #8
newfrontier45
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Quote:
Well worth doing
It ruins the fine action and glass rod trigger of an Old Model Ruger. Safety is between the ears and a traditional single action is no more or less safe than a New Model. It's up to the individual to safely operate a firearm.
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Old May 22, 2013, 08:37 AM   #9
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The primary advantage to Colts and well-executed copies, is that they typically have a much better trigger than models equipped with a transfer-bar.

Personally, I can get along with the New Model Ruger. I like the ability to load six and forget it. I finally figured out how to get a zero-creep 4# trigger on a New Model, provided the fit of the hammer and trigger pins isn't too sloppy. What I cannot do is turn one into the 3# icicle that exists on older Colt SAA's.

Gonna have to give that Bounty Hunter another look...
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Old May 22, 2013, 09:10 AM   #10
g.willikers
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Where is the EAA Bounty Hunter manufactured?

I once had a Hawes and liked it very much.
More than some other popular, and more expensive, brands.
Too bad they're not still available.
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Old May 22, 2013, 09:46 AM   #11
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As for me, I wish Ruger would go back to the 3 screw 'without' the Transfer Bar. Nothing wrong with load one, skip one, and load four more.... But alas I understand in today's world, a lot of people don't 'learn' how to use a six-sun properly ... so the transfer bar .

Nice revolvers above. Next revolver I think is going to be one of the 'copies' ... or if I run into a reasonable three screw Ruger .
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Old May 23, 2013, 01:25 AM   #12
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I like SA guns, but I am more of a DA guy. I have a question, and perhaps I should know this already, but how much force would it take for a SA to accidentally set off a round? A drop directly on the hammer from hip height? Would that do it? Or is the safety issue more so that if your thumb slipped, and the hammer fell back down, that could set off the round?

Just something I've always wondered. I have some SAs, but I'm not into them like Bob Wright is, for example.
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Old May 23, 2013, 06:15 AM   #13
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most of my single actions have a transfer bar... I have five new Vaqueros, a pair of single sixes in 32 mag, & a custom single 10 ( converted to an 8 shot 25 caliber ), as well as several blackhawks & super blackhawks... I'm happy with the triggers on all those...

several odd ball single actions that don't have transfer bars, & while I like them, they get shot less than the Rugers...

I actually wanted the transfer bar for my custom snubbie, as it was built for CCW, & I wanted to safely carry six, instead of only five...

for CAS, I don't think it matters much, as all the stages are built around only 5 cartridges in each gun anyway... but the Rugers do a fine job at CAS, so it doesn't bother me one way or t other...
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Old May 23, 2013, 06:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
how much force would it take for a SA to accidentally set off a round? A drop directly on the hammer from hip height? Would that do it? Or is the safety issue more so that if your thumb slipped, and the hammer fell back down, that could set off the round?
Depends on which type of single-action mechanism you're talking about.

If you have an original Colt or Ruger 3-screw action with the firing pin sitting on top of a primer, then it doesn't take much of a bump at all to drive the firing pin into the primer and set it off. A drop directly onto the hammer onto a hard surface from a few inches will do it. Just a pretty mild bump on the hammer will do it. That's why you carry on an empty chamber. Do the "load one, skip one, load 4" routine and you'll end up with the hammer down on an empty chamber for carrying.

On any of the later designs with a transfer bar, the hammer can't reach the firing pin until the trigger is pulled. So you can beat the hammer into mush with a live primer under it and nothing will happen as long as you're not pulling the trigger.

If you're holding the trigger back, and the hammer slips and goes forward, then anything will go off if there's a round under the firing pin. That's kind of the point of pulling the trigger.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:35 AM   #15
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[QUOTE]a traditional single action is no more or less safe than a New Model.

If you want to carry six rounds safely in a single-action revolver, a revolver having a transfer bar is safer than a "traditional" single-action. If you are fine with limiting yourself to five rounds and load a traditional single-action correctly, it is as "safe" as a revolver equipped with a transfer bar.
Personally, I like to fill all the holes drilled in the cylinder of any revolver.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:43 AM   #16
g.willikers
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Has anyone investigated how common it is for a dropped sixgun to land on the hammer?
The few times that I've dropped one, (when as a youngster, while practicing my Matt Dillon fast draw), it either landed on the bottom of the grip or on the side.
Never on the hammer.
It would seem that even if dropped directly on the hammer, it would have to happen indoors on a hard floor, to risk a discharge.
Outside, on the ground, unless it hit directly on the one, lonely rock anywheres around, the soft grass or dirt would prevent a discharge.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:53 AM   #17
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It would seem that even if dropped directly on the hammer, it would have to happen indoors on a hard floor, to risk a discharge.
I agree, g.willikers, that what you ask would seem to be so but I have heard and read many times that revolvers almost have a preverse, Murphy-inspired propensity to land on the hammer when dropped and that it doesn't need to hit a rock to get an unwanted discharge.
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Old May 23, 2013, 11:22 AM   #18
newfrontier45
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If you want to carry six rounds safely in a single-action revolver, a revolver having a transfer bar is safer than a "traditional" single-action.
Carrying six rounds in a traditional single action is not safe, period.

Some of us place things like a smooth action, light & crisp trigger, charge holes that line up with the loading port, etc., etc., above having that sixth round. Most of my traditional single actions have a crisp, 2lb trigger. Something not possible on a New Model, even with professional tuning. A traditional sixgun is so much easier and quicker to manipulate than trying to line up the chambers on a New Model while loading or ejecting empties. If you watch someone who knows what they're about running one fast, you would quickly understand. Some folks just have a problem with having an empty chamber. Some don't.
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Old May 23, 2013, 12:13 PM   #19
James K
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When the .44 Magnum Ruger BH was first introduced, a man I knew took to carrying one in a "cowboy" type holster, using a loop type retainer. He had been warned (by me) about carrying the gun fully loaded, but insisted there was no problem. One day, as he was getting into his truck, the gun somehow came loose and fell out of the holster, landing on the hammer. The bullet went up through his upper leg, fortunately missing the bone but taking with it a good size chunk of muscle. He still carries a gun, but is much more safety conscious. And he still walks with a limp.

Enough said.

Jim
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Old May 23, 2013, 02:09 PM   #20
Bob Wright
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As to how much pressure (impact) to set off a Single Action with the hammer down and resting on the primer, Elmer Keith observed that when saddling a horse with the stirrup looped over the saddle horn, the stirrup slipping and falling on the hammer would fire the gun.

Skeeter Skelton used a hammer handle to strike the hammer and fire the revolver.

In each case the hammer was fully down. As to having the hammer at the safety notch, I have no idea, but it has to break the trigger sear first.

Incidentally I remember seeing a Colt SA with an extra set of cylinder notches. The gun was carried with the hammer aligned between two chambers, with the cylinder bolt locked into a cylinder notch. Probably worked O.K. but sure made an unsightly looking Colt!

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Old May 23, 2013, 04:22 PM   #21
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Something not possible on a New Model, even with professional tuning. A traditional sixgun is so much easier and quicker to manipulate than trying to line up the chambers on a New Model while loading or ejecting empties. If you watch someone who knows what they're about running one fast, you would quickly understand. Some folks just have a problem with having an empty chamber. Some don't.
FYI, my New Model .45 Colt Flattop (medium frame) which has been tuned by Mundun Enterprises comes close. Let off is under 2# and crisp. I opted for a heavier hammer spring than what he normally would put on it and like it, yet it is lighter than the stock spring. Also since it is a flattop, the chambers line up with the loading gate.... BTW, I am one of those that has no problem with an empty chamber even when I can load 6 safely.

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Old May 23, 2013, 04:43 PM   #22
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I've always carried with the hammer down between cartridges. Not saying I recommend it, just that I do it that way.
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:24 PM   #23
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I think it's pretty well established that a dropped single action will fall on the hammer almost every time you don't want it to.

An incident from my own childhood... One of my Dad's acquaintances had a Colt SA, which he kept loaded full-up as a house gun. One day he had it out of the dresser drawer, for some reason, and he promptly dropped it. Murphy was in charge of gravity that day and arranged for the Colt to land on its hammer. This sent a big roundnose slug ambling off from floor level at a slightly upward angle, through two interior (plaster) walls and out the kitchen window. Mrs. Deadeye was in the kitchen, cooking her little heart out. She walked across the bullet's path on her way to the table and turned around just in time to see it knock plaster all over her floor- and bust out her window. This would have been about 1963 and I'm certain it was not a high point on the Domestic Bliss Timeline for that particular family.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:20 PM   #24
Jeremiah/Az
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I have several Ruger SA, both 3 screw & transfer bars. They all have 2# triggers in them. You have to change some springs & do a little tuning, but it can be done. I love the SA & have always shot them better than any other guns.
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Old May 24, 2013, 12:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Carrying six rounds in a traditional single action is not safe, period.
I don't see anybody on this thread disagreeing with this statement.


Quote:
Some of us place things like a smooth action, light & crisp trigger, charge holes that line up with the loading port, etc., etc., above having that sixth round.
I like smooth actions and nice trigger pulls as much as the next fellow. You can have it all on a single-action revolver with a transfer bar and have six rounds safely on board to boot. It's called having your cake and eating it too.
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