The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 20, 2013, 05:09 AM   #1
wileybelch
Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Posts: 43
Lee bulge buster vs. Redding G-RX

There is a claim that the bulge in .40 S&W cases (from brass fired in Glocks?) weakens the case by thinning the case wall at the bulge. The claim further states that removal of this bulge with either the Lee or Redding tools does not 'fix' this thinning. Thus, reloading this brass will result in case failure. Has anyone experienced this 'failure'? Is this warning legitimate or lawyer speak? I have a multi-thousand lot of .40 brass that measures 0.432"-ish just forward of the web. I need to reduce this 'bulge' to get good/proper FL sizing during decapping. If this type of alleged problem does make for weakened cases, should this brass be discarded?
wileybelch is offline  
Old May 20, 2013, 06:37 AM   #2
WESHOOT2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 13,905
chamber size matters

If brass is that bulged I prefer not to use it again; know what I mean?
__________________
.
"all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"
WESHOOT2 is online now  
Old May 20, 2013, 06:48 AM   #3
SL1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2007
Posts: 1,994
I tend to agree that bulged brass is going to be weaker, even after the bulge is "fixed" by sizing it down with a special die.

Whether it fails is a matter of how it is subsequently loaded and whether the previously bulged area ends-up facing an unsupported chamber location in the chamber. If your gun does not have such an area, then it is less of a problem. But, if you are shooting it in a gun that makes those bulges, then sooner or later the previously bulged area of a "fixed" case will probably end-up unsupported when it is fired again. If that is done repeatedly until the case fails somewhere, then sooner or later one of the case failures could well be a blow-out at the web/wall intersection instead of the usual split case mouth.

Because other people may very well have previously "fixed" .40 S&W brass that I pick up at the range, I relegate .40 S&W range brass to mild loads, around 25,000 psi peak pressure. And, I am shooting those in Sigs which do not normally bulge brass with 35,000 psi loads.

SL1

Last edited by SL1; May 21, 2013 at 09:29 PM.
SL1 is offline  
Old May 20, 2013, 06:53 AM   #4
WESHOOT2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 13,905
spell "Tanfoglio"

My personal 40 S&W barrel (down to only one gun in 40) has a tight match chamber.

I do what SL1 suggests.
__________________
.
"all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"
WESHOOT2 is online now  
Old May 20, 2013, 07:25 AM   #5
Beanie-Bean
Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2011
Location: Central TX
Posts: 82
I use a Redding G-Rx die to resize my 10mm, .40S&W, and .357SIG brass. Also, I'm not loading "nuclear" loads, either. Any one of those calibers will work just fine with medium loads. The very hot loads for these calibers in my pistols are harder for me to have any accuracy worth talking about.

I haven't had any case separation yet from any of the brass I've used over and over. Generally, I'll load until the cases crack, and I'll usually see that after they've been shot or on the bench when I'm loading ammo.
__________________
Ammo by Dillon and Hornady
Beanie-Bean is offline  
Old May 20, 2013, 07:01 PM   #6
Ruger45LC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 374
There is slight bulge, like when a .40 is fired through a Glock that the bulge buster will take out. Those cases don't bother me, I've reloaded many with zero issue, even warmer loads.

Some bulging is severe and looks like a tumor sticking out the side of the brass. That brass you throw away. Glock brass really doesn't present much of an issue, either that or I've gotten lucky in the thousands I've reloaded.
__________________
Glocks and Single Actions

Repent America!
Ruger45LC is offline  
Old May 20, 2013, 07:47 PM   #7
jepp2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 1,276
A bulge is not a bulge.

There are several types of bulges and depending on your sizing die, the number it will correct may vary.

For the normal Glock bulge (and this is the bulge ahead of the web due to the generous chamber, I use Lee carbide sizing dies. They size further down the case than any others I have tried. Then I check all sized brass in a case gage (either Lyman or Wilson). Anything that fails the case gage goes through the Lee bulge buster.

But, I do not try to recover brass that was fired OOB (out of battery). This causes the guppy belly and this brass is permanently weakened in my opinion. I show a picture just to clarify. But I also fire my brass in tighter chambers (Lone Wolf) to maintain the brass dimensions. This does make chambering more exact.

jepp2 is offline  
Old May 20, 2013, 07:48 PM   #8
David Bachelder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Location: Trinity, Texas
Posts: 610
+1 on ruger45lc.

I agree 100%. I have reloaded a lot of .40 S&W. I'm sure I have brass that has been debulged and reloaded three or four times.
__________________
David Bachelder
Rookie reloader, but learning fast
Trinity, Texas
I load, 9mm Luger, .40, 38 S&W, .38 Special, .357, .45ACP, .45 Colt, .243 and 30-06
David Bachelder is offline  
Old May 20, 2013, 09:28 PM   #9
Shane Tuttle
Staff
 
Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Posts: 8,506
Any brass I come across that looks like jepp's ends up in file 13.

The older series Glocks had the reputation of excessive bulging. They've since corrected the unsupported chamber to a large extent. I still see bulged cases in the newer designed barrels, but it's not nearly the degree they used to be.

Not sure this answers your questions directly. But if the bulges are minor, I wouldn't have any problems following the practices SL1 suggested. I am looking into getting the Redding G-RX in the near future, though, for said reasons.
__________________
If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language.

Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Shane Tuttle is offline  
Old May 20, 2013, 10:15 PM   #10
David Bachelder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Location: Trinity, Texas
Posts: 610
The buldging I see is not near as extensive as what jepp2's photos show. You have to look close to see the buldge my glock creates. The redding die is my weapon of choice. I tried a LEE stripped down .40cal Factory Crimp Die but I wasn't satisfied with the results.
__________________
David Bachelder
Rookie reloader, but learning fast
Trinity, Texas
I load, 9mm Luger, .40, 38 S&W, .38 Special, .357, .45ACP, .45 Colt, .243 and 30-06
David Bachelder is offline  
Old May 21, 2013, 02:44 AM   #11
wileybelch
Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Posts: 43
Additional info

Thanks for the comments so far. This 'bulge' was noticed when FL sizing with a Lyman TC sizing die. The sizing step actually shaved a very thin sliver of brass off the outside of the case just forward of the web. At first, I thought I had pushed the case into the die cockeyed, but numerous cases did the same thing. The shaved area (not a normal burnished sizing ring) covered from 45 to almost 90 degrees of arc on one side of the case. Sounds pretty much like this unsupported case is funky chambers syndrome. Again, the 'bulge' measures consistently 0.006" to 0.008" over the 0.424" case specification. It is virtually invisible to casual inspection. I sense a consensus that this 'mild' distortion on less than 1/4 of the circumference of the case should be removed with either the Lee or the Redding tool. I don't think there is any true 'thinning' of the brass at all (based on the measurements given above), notwithstanding hearsay/opinion to the contrary. I'm just happy my observations have been noted by other .40 users. It may take a little time, but I will post my experiences with the push through die process onto this thread when a good bunch of ammo has been shot after using this approach to case prep.
wileybelch is offline  
Old May 21, 2013, 06:18 AM   #12
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 306
...the picture above is the most extreme that I have ever seen and I would not re-use those cases.

I do have both the Lee and Redding bulge buster dies. There is no difference in the way the two dies perform. The Lee is about 1/2 the price of the Redding.
rajbcpa is offline  
Old June 21, 2013, 04:14 AM   #13
wileybelch
Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Posts: 43
OK, here's the bottom line. The Lee bulge buster requires the Lee factory crimp die to function properly. So you have to get two products to make the Lee system work. By the time you get both die products, you've spent almost $35. Redding G-RX is a $35 bill and has a neat ($10 extra) soda bottle adaptor to collect the freshly sized cases. Too much hassle to get the Lee product when you already have a Lyman, RCBS, Dillon, etc., .40 S&W die set on hand (i.e., no Lee factory crimp die). Get the Redding G-RX and be done!
wileybelch is offline  
Old June 21, 2013, 06:51 AM   #14
thump_rrr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2010
Posts: 267
I already owned a Lee FCD so I purchased the Lee Bulge Buster.
I don't own a .40 with an unsupported chamber but I have removed slight bulges from once fired range pickup brass.
If it is to severe I will recycle the brass.
I have not had any negative experiences with this brass but if I do I will send my brass over to a friends house which now has a Casepro 100 roll sizer in the reloading room.
thump_rrr is offline  
Old June 21, 2013, 07:42 AM   #15
g.willikers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 4,310
Those pictures look more like they were caused by an out of battery problem, than unsupported chamber, don't they?
Maybe due to a previous bulge in the brass that prevented them from fully chambering.
__________________
Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.
g.willikers is offline  
Old June 21, 2013, 08:00 AM   #16
Real Gun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 690
How about slow burning powder starting the gun to cycle out of battery before the round is fully discharged?
Real Gun is offline  
Old June 21, 2013, 08:24 AM   #17
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 4,082
I use the Bulge Buster die on all my 40 S&W cases, bulge or not. It is more like full length re-sizing the case than bulge busting. Pretty much all my pick-up brass is once fired cases. I sold off my 40 S&W pistols because I don't like the way they shot the 40 S&W and I prefer the 45 ACP much better.

I do use them in a Hi-Point 4095TS, and love the way it shoots, but there is no unsupported chamber in that gun that I am aware of, so it does not become an issue for me.

It will depend on how badly the cases are deformed and number of times the case was used, before the web will become dangerous and unusable.

Any case that you have the slightest doubt about should be tossed in the trash. There are too many new shooters out there shooting 40 S&W that do not pick up their once fired brass, for you to use a case that you may question.

Jim
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Jim243 is offline  
Reply

Tags
rhb

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10016 seconds with 7 queries