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Old May 19, 2013, 02:39 PM   #1
Bruiser101
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Help! Trying to buy Colt revolver for BF :)

Hi everyone,

First time poster here, seeking help from experienced folk.

My boyfriend is a gun collector, and I am hoping to surprise him by getting him an antique Colt revolver for his big 4-0 birthday coming up, but I actually don't know much about guns

This is what I know about this particular one I am considering:
  • Date is listed as 1859
  • All matching serial numbers in low 300's
  • Address mark is New-York U.S. America
  • Comes in an original 5 compartment wood case with original caps tins, balls, flask and tools
Picture is not very good but here it is


Asking price is $3000.

I thought this is 1851 Navy but it has round 5 1/2" barrel instead of octagonal barrel, and cylinder looks different. Can someone tell me what model this is exactly? Also given the description, is this a decent purchase or am I being taken? Any opinion from experts would be greatly appreciated!!
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Old May 19, 2013, 09:28 PM   #2
Sgt127
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Old Colts are some of the most valuable, and copied, guns on the market.

IF I could hold it in my hand and study it for awhile, I MIGHT know enough to make a reasonable guess on its value and authenticity. But, I would only be willing to gamble my money.

Someone here may be able to help you.

Get alot of really clear pictures and try posting on the Colt Forum. There are people there that can give you needed guidance. Good luck!
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Old May 20, 2013, 06:51 AM   #3
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That is most certainly not a '51 Navy. The contour of the barrel and rebated cylinder leads me to believe that its some derivation of the Model 1860 Army and most likely a .44 caliber rather than the .36 Caliber of the Navy. I am not, however, an expert on Colts, especially ones of that vintage, so I couldn't verify whether or not that is a genuine original Colt or not.
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Old May 20, 2013, 07:17 AM   #4
johnwilliamson062
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My brother and I often exchange firearms related gifts. I dissuade anyone else from purchasing any firearms gifts for me. When I do ask for something I make sure I provide EXACTLY what I want. As in a link to the product on a website. People who don't shoot won't get the correct item.

When dealing with antiques, if you don't know what you are buying you are asking to get ripped off. Some reproductions are pretty well done.

Your post reads like you don't know exactly what your boyfriend collects or much about antique Colts.

Does your boyfriend have a friend who also collects antique firearms? Someone who knows more about exactly what he collects and identifying antique firearms.
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Old May 20, 2013, 12:18 PM   #5
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It is very hard to buy a firearm as a gift. I would say find out what he collects then go from there. But it is awsome that you want to buy him a collectors grade gun. Best of luck.
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Old May 21, 2013, 12:07 AM   #6
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Possibly a Model 1862.

I wouldn't buy ut without having it checked out by an expert or without a money back guarantee.
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Old May 21, 2013, 12:14 AM   #7
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Lots of Colt experts at Colt Forum.
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Old May 23, 2013, 09:43 AM   #8
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I would be very reluctant to put down three big ones on an antique gun without having it independently looked at by a real expert. Very reluctant.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:08 AM   #9
PetahW
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.

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on deciding on a nice gift for your BF !

Ditto on getting an expert to physically examine your prospect - It's easy for an uneducated person to get "taken"

FWIW, the "pattern" you showed here (round bbl, fluted/stepped cylinder) certainly looks like a .36cal (same cal as Model 1851) Model 1862 Police Colt (which was available with 5-1/2" bbl) - and the bbl address is correct for that model.

If the case is an original Colt case, in good condition, the gun may be fairly priced.

FWIW only early .44 cal Model 1860 Colt Army's had fluted cylinders (AFAIK).


.

Last edited by PetahW; May 23, 2013 at 10:14 AM.
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Old May 23, 2013, 04:52 PM   #10
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Its a 62 Navy/Police in .36 caliber as all of them were. It also appears to be an early one with the iron trigger guard and backstrap(if it is indeed genuine). If the case and accessories are original the price is pretty decent.
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:26 PM   #11
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Before buying it have a Colt expert check it out if you are able. There appears to be something odd about the cylinder. It appears to be a 2 piece cylinder. If it is then it may have been converted to hold metallic cartridges. There were many such conversions in the 1870s and 80s. BTW I am far from an expert on Colt black powder revolvers.
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:35 PM   #12
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Its not converted, you can see the nipples. What it is is rebated. The 62 Police was built on the 49 Pocket frame which was a .31 caliber. The cylinder wasn't big enough to bore out to .36 caliber so the front was made bigger and the frame was stepped so it would fit. Same with the 1860 Army. It was built on the 51 Navy frame which was a .36 so they rebated it so it could be bored to .44 caliber.
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Old May 23, 2013, 06:33 PM   #13
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If I were going to drop 3,000 on an old Colt revolver it would have to be checked out by an expert before I was comfortable buying it.
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Old May 23, 2013, 07:08 PM   #14
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An old time collector friend of mine just got nailed on a fake. I think it might have even been the same model. I agree with the concensus here that you need to have it verified in the hands of an expert before purchase. Or at least find a dealer with a return policy.
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Old May 24, 2013, 04:27 PM   #15
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Kudos for being willing to buy a nice gun for your boyfriend. Very cool.

When my wife wants to buy a gun for me, we go to the store together and she writes the check, still very cool.

Once time I gifted a handgun to my Godfather, but I contacted his son, my Godbrother first to make sure the gun I had in mind would fit in his collection.

Does your boyfriend have a pretty good friend who is familiar with what he already owns? That one is a great idea.
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Old May 24, 2013, 05:08 PM   #16
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I'd love to have a GF that bought me guns. If you guys ever break up give me a call.
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Old May 24, 2013, 07:11 PM   #17
357 Python
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Thanks Hawg Haggan. It just seem off to me and I'm glad you were able to clear that up. This is the first one I have seen like that. Thanks for the education.
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Old May 24, 2013, 07:16 PM   #18
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You're welcome. Glad I could clear it up for you.
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Old May 25, 2013, 12:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Date is listed as 1859
All matching serial numbers in low 300's
Address mark is New-York U.S. America
Comes in an original 5 compartment wood case with original caps tins, balls, flask and tools
Notice the gun is advertised as from 1859. But the consensus opinion is that the gun seems to be a model 1862.
That should increase the level of caution about getting the gun.
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Old May 25, 2013, 09:59 AM   #20
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The early 62's have an 1850 patent date in one of the cylinder flutes. The 0 could have been mistaken for a 9, especially if its well worn.
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Old May 25, 2013, 11:44 AM   #21
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For what its worth, my collector friend informed me that the 1862 he got scammed on lacked "COLT'S PATENT" on it, which is a giveaway BUT he forgot to check for that. He also stated that the serial numbers on the parts were not as uniform as they should be, but that did not register to him.

I think in part, my friend, despite his great collection, and 30 years experience, bought the story at first, instead of the gun. Just goes to show important "buying the gun" is.
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Old May 25, 2013, 01:19 PM   #22
Bruiser101
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Here are some more pics...

Thank you, everyone, for giving me things to think about and look out for. Unfortunately, this gun is being offered as a part of an estate auction out-of-state, so I'm not sure how to go about getting it examined by an expert before the auction takes place tomorrow.

I did ask my BF last X'mas what kind of guns he'd be looking to add to his collection next, and "early Colt revolver" was one of many he rattled off, though he didn't provide me with a specific model. Of course, I'm sure he knew I wouldn't remember all the details anyhow...

Reading Hawg Haggen's comments, the auction house got the year wrong but if it is genuine, it may be a decent find, so I did get more pictures.

I know pictures are no substitute for actually inspecting the item in person, but do these pictures help in making the call on authenticity?

Thanks!!!!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 17532770_1_x.jpg (93.8 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 17532770_4_l.jpg (23.3 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 17532770_5_l.jpg (40.7 KB, 24 views)

Last edited by Bruiser101; May 25, 2013 at 01:26 PM.
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Old May 25, 2013, 01:20 PM   #23
Bruiser101
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And a couple more pics...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 17532770_6_l.jpg (23.7 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg 17532770_7_l.jpg (33.2 KB, 25 views)
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Old May 25, 2013, 02:44 PM   #24
PetahW
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IMO, that case looks to be wrong in several ways: It's too "new", the loading tool is wrong, the powder flask looks to be a modern one that's has it's copper finish completely chemically removed rather than partially removed as usual from use, and IMO the interior is the wrong pattern.

Here's what a real ones look like:

http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/57/lid/1243

and

http://collectorebooks.com/gregg01/c...er/Lot-511.htm

For comparison with the gun in your estate sale, here's a certified museum gennie: (Please note the stamping in the cylinder fluting)

http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/...-revolver.aspx

Here's what a cased Uberti (copy) 1862 looks like, including a different-colored case similar to the estate sale case:

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/700516...rcussion-cased


IMO, if it's a genuine Colt, it's a hard-pressed specimen that someone found, put together with whatever to "make" a cased example and fooled around with the finish on the accessories and maybe the revolver - all in an attempt to raise the value.

It could be that whomever passed it into the estate got taken; or the heirs don't know what they're looking at, and presume it to be worth 50% of the ones I've linked above for reference.

IDK if your BF would want it, but I wouldn't pay more than $1K for it, and only that if it is indeed a gennie.

My opinion, of course, is worth exactly what you've paid for it...............




.

Last edited by PetahW; May 25, 2013 at 02:53 PM.
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Old May 25, 2013, 03:19 PM   #25
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I do believe I'd have to pass on it also. The screw heads are a little too good and I'd expect to see more of a turn line on a revolver that old.
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