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Old May 20, 2013, 10:35 PM   #26
LewSchiller
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As a side note to that a friend speculates that in 6 months there'll be a whole lot of AR-15's for sale from guys who bought in the frenzy but then have bills to pay.
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Old May 21, 2013, 12:13 AM   #27
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I was also at the Denver collector show this weekend and as this has always been one of the premier gun SHOW's in this part of the world I for one was not disappointed.Vintage Winchesters,Sharps,Colts,Lugers,etc.This is how the whole gun show thing started and is now bastardized by ammo gougers,black rifle peddlers,jewelry sellers,die cast model hawkers and Lord knows what else.If a guy wants to fight the crowds at the "stampede shows" this was not the place to be,but if you,re into quality and not just the same old stuff the Denver collector show is a delight that you will always remember and await with anticipation the following May when you can go again.
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Old May 21, 2013, 12:35 AM   #28
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Vintage Winchesters,Sharps,Colts,Lugers,etc.This is how the whole gun show thing started and is now bastardized by ammo gougers,black rifle peddlers,jewelry sellers,die cast model hawkers and Lord knows what else.
The vintage guns are as overpriced as everything else anymore.

How many of you older guys shoot with younger shooters? Not kids but young adult males? Its a good reason many are shooting ARs/Glocks.
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Old May 21, 2013, 07:32 AM   #29
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El Bango - Heck yeah - it's an awesome show! As a Museum Show there were things you'll never see elsewhere. It's worth going just for that and I don't think anybody has said otherwise. As for the buy and sell part of the show there too the selection and quality was beyond reproach. Let me ask...what did you come home with?
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Old May 21, 2013, 08:24 AM   #30
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I guess I'm not normal

I like to go to the gun shows in my area ( I've never been to an antique or collector show though ) I also buy a couple tables to sell at one local show every year... I highlight "sell", as I don't have much money for more guns, though I consider myself a "collector" I go to the shows with intent to "sell" most of what I brought ( I mostly sell gun stuff, ammo, etc. & rarely sell actual guns ) & then use my new funds to buy more guns, or gun related stuff that I actually need or want...

since my funds are limited (mostly because I have other hobbies, & a "real life" outside the gun hobby, I started a collection of early pocket revolvers several years ago... the lower cost of H&R's, Ivers, Hopkins & Allen, & to an extent, early Smiths, I was able to collect about 3 dozen different & functional examples, mostly chambered in 32 & 38 S&W ( both of which I now reload for ) so all my examples are fully shootable... along the way, I've picked up several I think of as prizes, for good values...most of my purchases were made off of Gun Broker, but I find that I get some pretty good deals ( as a seller ), buying or trading at the show I sell at...

some of these old gems have some pretty interesting features... antique Iver "bicycle" guns with trigger safeties... early Hopkins & Allen safety police models with a unique hammer block feature... top break auto eject revolvers, top break manual eject revolvers... the introduction of the loading gate...



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Old May 21, 2013, 09:37 AM   #31
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Some of us "geezer" enthusiasts--I'm going on 76, on the high end of geezerdom--now have to live on extremely limited fixed incomes. I love guns. I carry concealed. I'd love to be able to collect guns, especially vintage Smith revolvers. But there's no possible way, even if I could do the necessary walking, for me to afford the insanely elevated prices at gun shows today.

Fortunately, and I hope other elderly enthusiasts have done this, I've helped instill in my son an appreciation of the vintage guns and older, time-tested designs. His favorite handgun is a lovely Smith Model 15-8 I gave him. He hunts deer with a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. Better still, his three boys have all learned to shoot well and love guns, and all are crazy about the M15-8.

If we want to see new crops of enthusiasts, shooters and collectors in the future, we old guys need to do our part to refine the tastes of the kids coming along behind us.
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Old May 21, 2013, 11:04 AM   #32
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Enthusiasts have to be made - fostered - encouraged - developed.
One way to do that is to minimize the wistful reminisces about how it was "back in my day..." Cheap ammo and plentiful weapons 30 years ago is of no interest to a burgeoning C&R collector.
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Old May 21, 2013, 11:21 AM   #33
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"Back in my day" is instantly followed by the click of young minds closing. But if we introduce them to the good old guns, there's hope.
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Old May 21, 2013, 01:03 PM   #34
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Young people don't have the same kind of disposable income as the pre-1980s generation did.

The $5 an hour I earned in 1972 is worth a lot more than what kids are making for the same job today.
Gun values were a lot lower relative to earnings as well. 10 hours labor would get me a good used handgun or rifle and less than half that for military surplus.
My latest revolver cost $300. How many hours would a typical 18 year old kid have to work to earn that, if they can get a job?
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Old May 21, 2013, 01:26 PM   #35
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I've been thinking about this as well. in 1976 $10 per hour was Teamster wages. A nice house was $35-40,000. Taxes were lower - fuel was lower and on and on.
Today $10 per hour is still what a lot of people make but expenses are exponentially higher.
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Old May 23, 2013, 12:40 PM   #36
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..Today $10 per hour is still what a lot of people make ...
Yes, but the Teamsters are making $30-40/hr. It's not just a question of the dollar amount, but also one of the value. How much time it takes, (and at what income level) to make the money needed.

100 years ago, people with a "good" job needed a week's wages to buy a good quality shotgun. People earning less might need a month's wages to buy the same gun. And that is still basically true today, even though the number of dollars needed might be 50 or even 100 times what it was back then.

Example, in 1909, my grandmother was making $17 a month as a school teacher. My Grandfather's double barrel Ithaca 12ga cost him about $17.50 (as I recall him telling it).

Guns, and particularly ammunition today is in a price bubble, but if you look outside the bubble, things aren't hugely more expensive than they used to be, its just that fewer of us have the dollars that we used to...
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Old May 23, 2013, 02:30 PM   #37
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My fondest memories as a small boy was my father taking me to the big gunshow at the Pomona fair grounds.
It was magical..guns, guns and more guns.
My dad would point out specific guns, tell me about them, "Grandpa had one of these in 32-20 type of talk.
It was just our Father & Son time, away from Mom and my two sisters lol.
It did distill in me an appreciation for the older guns, although for some strange reasons my dad ended up with about a dozen S&W Model 10's over the years which I never understood Really Model 10's????

Gun show prices are what they are, I don't blame anyone for making money, and honestly like a lot of items us men have, the for sell price is so high as to make sure it actually doesn't sell.
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Old June 8, 2013, 07:10 PM   #38
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This is a really interesting thread. I tend to agree with most of the points made, that in general younger shooters are not interested in old/antique guns. What I notice among the people my age (24 here) if they do have an interest in old guns, its nearly always entirely centered around Mil-surp rifles. I've seen eyes light up at the range when I take out my Savage model 1919 and folks think it's some unusual battle rifle, then go dead-eyed when I explain it's a .22 match rifle. Just trying to get the super-ninja behind the counter at various local gun stores to understand that yes, there is such thing as 2 1/2" 12 gauge shells is a chore, they instantly want to sell me the latest tactical Remington/Mossberg "shotty". For better or worse I think the next 20 years will see a lot of the interest in antiques drying up. My real concern is what happens to these guns when the current crop of collectors passes on. Will their children or grandchildren have any idea what all those guns are and where to get good money for them? Or will they simply go to some buy-back program?
On that note, if any of you collectors would like to share your antiques with me for future care feel free
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Old June 8, 2013, 08:33 PM   #39
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Old School

I'm 39 getting ready to turn 40. I had my first breech load 5 shot .32 Short S&W at 21 and still love them. I wish I could find one in real good (working order) at a fair price pre FFL. Most guys are trying to get $400 plus out of them. I don't know a lot about the values so maybe they are commanding these high of prices. I bought my last S&W .38 short for $125 and it need a little re-blue touch up.
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Old June 8, 2013, 10:12 PM   #40
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I think collecting is enjoyable no matter what age someone is. Many people start collecting at a young age.

I do think its a shrinking hobby, and it does depress me. I have invested a significant amount of money into guns, and I hope someday to complete the cycle, but I often think the time to sell is now (or in the next 5 years), although I am still actively collecting. I personally think the baby boomers are the last great pro gun generation. There are many baby boomers, but when they are all gone, where will guns be? I don't know myself, and really, none of us do.
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Old June 9, 2013, 09:02 AM   #41
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There are a lot of young people involved with handguns, and a lot of them are women. Their interest, though, is in self defense. I've spoken with some who mention with pride that they, perhaps, have a Detective Special or the like but they don't have a display case full of collector firearms.

Within the people I meet there are those who just want a reliable self defense weapon. There isn't much of a pride factor. Others choose higher end examples - perhaps a SIG P238 over a Ruger LCP - and express satisfaction with their selection, but the overarching point is that they aren't collectors - they've chosen to do what is necessary to protect themselves and their families.

I guess when you think about it they have a similar mindset to the people who bought the guns people now collect in the first place - it's just hard to imagine someone 20 years from now getting all excited about collecting black plastic .380's.

The preceding is just my experience with those people I meet.
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Old June 9, 2013, 09:32 AM   #42
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in 1976 $10 per hour was Teamster wages
In 1976 I made 3.10 an hour.
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