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Old May 30, 2013, 07:08 AM   #1
Kimio
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Well now, you don't see this everyday Teaparty and Democrats working together?

Well sort of, and to be clear, I do not count all who align themselves with the Democratic party to be anti gun (Though there are an awful lot that are, or so it seems). We have plenty of friends on the other side of the aisle that are advocates for enforcing and keeping the RKBA and 2A rights, we also have plenty of enemies on the right, who would gladly trade away our rights ro RKBA just as soon as any gun grabber on the left.

That said, I found this to be a little intriguing, granted it is Texas, but it's a nice thing to see when things work out in favor for RKBA rights advocates.

Teaparty advocates and Democrats effectively crushing a bill that would essentially give law makers special privilages in regards to carrying and owning firearms is what I've gathered from the article.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...ers-gun-perks/

Last edited by Kimio; May 30, 2013 at 09:04 AM. Reason: Corrected URL
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Old May 30, 2013, 07:42 AM   #2
TxFlyFish
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Kimio,

Now this is my personal opinion and I hope I don't offend anyone by being forthright. I think the dems in this case have made the smarter move for their cause...ie they are still pro gun control. This bill does NOT limit the current rights of texas chl holders but instead increases the freedoms of a certain few, who just happens to be our congressmen. So now a bunch of texas pro 2a advocates get in a jealous hissy fit on how this is unfair, not realizing how HARD it has been for us to get major pro 2a laws passed in this session. We texans must come to our senses that this bill would be a strategic win for 2015 legislative session, where we can use it as a strong leverage to extend its freedoms to everyone, ie if our legislators can carry it why can't the rest of chl holders, what makes them any more responsible than us?

Again, this bill takes NOTHING away from our existing freedoms. People are just jealous and don't understand the long term implications. The passage of this bill will make it so much easier for us non legislators to have the same freedoms in 2015. Instead we threw a hissy fit and now no one gets anything...childish
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Old May 30, 2013, 08:03 AM   #3
Kimio
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Interesting way to look at it, never thought of it that way.
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Old May 30, 2013, 10:06 AM   #4
Jim March
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Old May 30, 2013, 10:14 AM   #5
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I agree with Jim. We should not be promoting the rights of those elected to govern over those which put them in office. If the bill were equal for all Texans, I'd agree with it. Sadly, it isn't and sparks of elitism. That's not how we should do things in Texas.
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Old May 30, 2013, 10:17 AM   #6
eldermike
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I see it this way: If legislators need special treatment under the same laws based upon circumstances limited only to them, then I have no issue with it. However, we all face the same circumstances (the world is broken and dangerous for all of us). So: By limiting them by the very laws passed by them in the first place is not only fair it's a check on them by us.
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Old May 30, 2013, 11:11 AM   #7
TxFlyFish
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I urge everyone to please consider this from strategic point of view. We know its not right by principle but this will prove very crucial for us next session or even the special session that's being called by governor.

Even though we live in Texas it is not as gun friendly as everyone thinks. This session has been very hard and full of opposition.

We lose absolutely nothing if this bill had passed, and had it passed it would be just a matter of time until the same liberties are extended to us. It would be political suicide not to do so
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Old May 30, 2013, 11:24 AM   #8
TxFlyFish
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Again as fellow Texan I urge everyone to think clearly and objectively. These things have a much bigger scope than just principles.

Do you know what killed our chances at open carry this session? Over zealous, DISRESPECTFUL, and emotion filled comments sent to our legislator. Our opposition is strong and hold key positions.
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Old May 30, 2013, 12:04 PM   #9
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxFlyFish
We texans must come to our senses that this bill would be a strategic win for 2015 legislative session, where we can use it as a strong leverage to extend its freedoms to everyone, ie if our legislators can carry it why can't the rest of chl holders, what makes them any more responsible than us?
A few years ago, that was the story LEOs handed us when they came to the gun forums asking all of us "civilians" to support HR 218 (which passed and is now the LEOSA). Their story then was that "it's just a foot in the door, if you support getting national carry for us we'll help get it for everybody."

How many years has the LEOSA been in effect? And exactly how many LEOs have you seen actively and publicly advocating for national concealed carry rights for "the rest of us"?

2004, that's when. NINE years ago.

NONE, that's how many. We were used. We bought into it, and we created a class of special citizens, with rights not enjoyed by "the rest of us." And they're perfectly happy to leave it there, because they got theirs. Don't believe for an instant that legislators would be any different. A legislator is NOT any better of a person than I am, and there is no reason whatever for legislators to have rights and privileges not equally granted to their constituents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxFlyFish
We lose absolutely nothing if this bill had passed, and had it passed it would be just a matter of time until the same liberties are extended to us. It would be political suicide not to do so
I respectfully and vehemently disagree. IMHO it would be political suicide to support a bill such as this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxFlyFish
These things have a much bigger scope than just principles.
If I abandon my principles, what am I?

Reminds me of a story. A well-to-do man approaches a gorgeous young lady in a bar and asks if she'll sleep with him for a million dollars. She says "Sure." He responds, "How about for ten bucks?" The young lady gets very insulted and replies, "What do you think I am, a common whore?"

To which the gentleman responds, "We've already established that, now we're just negotiating your price."

I know my price, and they can't afford it.

Last edited by Tom Servo; May 30, 2013 at 03:41 PM. Reason: Removed "You're either dreaming or smoking bad weed."
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Old May 30, 2013, 11:27 PM   #10
Drizzt
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Quote:
Do you know what killed our chances at open carry this session? Over zealous, DISRESPECTFUL, and emotion filled comments sent to our legislator. Our opposition is strong and hold key positions.
I have to disagree with you on this. What killed open carry, as well as pretty much any other piece of decent firearms legislation that sat on desks until too late, is that Speaker Strauss has his own agenda and Pickett and the rest don't have what it takes to stand up to him and think for themselves. Strauss told them to sit on the 'controversial' bills in committee until too late, even though it could be shown that they easily had enough votes to pass, because Strauss is playing both sides of the aisle.
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Old May 30, 2013, 11:39 PM   #11
JohnKSa
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In my opinion, it should be a crime for any legislator or official participant in the legislative process to vote for or otherwise actively support and/or further the passage of a law or measure which provides any member of government, employee of the government or politician with special privileges, benefits or exemptions (i.e. any privilege benefit or exemption that is not available to any full U.S. citizen) other than those 1) that are specifically, obviously and officially required for that person to accomplish his or her specific job duties within the government, and, 2) that expire immediately upon that person's exit from government/government employment.

The only other exception is that it would be legal to provide special protection details as appropriate for current and past high-level members of government as long as all members of the protection detail are equipped exclusively with weapons and technology readily available to any full U.S. citizen (i.e. any adult citizen of the United States whose rights are not officially/legally impaired by past/current felony criminal behavior and who has not been legally declared mentally incompetent).
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Old May 31, 2013, 01:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
I have to disagree with you on this. What killed open carry, as well as pretty much any other piece of decent firearms legislation that sat on desks until too late, is that Speaker Strauss has his own agenda and Pickett and the rest don't have what it takes to stand up to him and think for themselves. Strauss told them to sit on the 'controversial' bills in committee until too late, even though it could be shown that they easily had enough votes to pass, because Strauss is playing both sides of the aisle.
Oh, don't get me started on Straus. But Straus cannot haul the water by himself. His unholy alignment with the other side of the aisle wouldn't accomplish a thing were it not for a largish number of big gummint collaborators on his own side of the aisle. Those are the ones I despise the most.
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Old May 31, 2013, 01:40 PM   #13
csmsss
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Quote:
Do you know what killed our chances at open carry this session? Over zealous, DISRESPECTFUL, and emotion filled comments sent to our legislator. Our opposition is strong and hold key positions.
That's nonsensical. No otherwise intelligent and responsible legislator (and certainly no TEXAS legislator) is so brittle as to use that as the basis to form an opinion.

We don't get meaningful improvements in our state's firearms laws because the folks who impede the progress of such bills don't suffer any electoral consequences from them. We don't get meaningful improvements in our state's firearms laws because while the leadership in both houses make all the right noises about being pro-gun, they are, in reality, entirely indifferent to our interests and see no reason to make any effort on our behalf. We don't get meaningful improvements in our state's firearms laws because, as a community, there are not enough of us who feel strongly enough about the situation to work for change.

THOSE are the reasons we don't see constructive change - and NOT because a few legislators receive occasionally impolite missives from constituents.
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Old May 31, 2013, 10:16 PM   #14
TxFlyFish
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Much to my surprise as well, but that's what killed it. I've been following the development of this session and if there's one thing that killed it is disrespect
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Old June 1, 2013, 02:43 AM   #15
JimmyR
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TxFlyFish, with all due respect, I can't support the idea that creating a protected class with special rights helps uplift the common man. History tells us that it is only by reinforcing the equality of the governors and the governed that we prevent oppression.

FURTHER: This law also creates an assumption that some people deserve more access to tools of self defense than others. How then does this help to further the rights for all proper persons to have access to firearms?
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Old June 2, 2013, 06:18 AM   #16
mayosligo
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Well now, you don't see this everyday Teaparty and Democrats working together?

So politicians deserve more rights because they are more important? Who were they before they got elected? Could not any employment class make these kind of claims. I work in road construction and this angers a lot of people every day. I need to be able to carry a gun everywhere I go. Or I work in the insurance field and this angers a lot of people so I need to be able to carry my gun everywhere. All this is, is selective citizen class distinction. I believe they call it a cast system. We are a constitutional republic, but people forget this all the time.
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