The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 17, 2013, 11:26 AM   #26
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,203
It's safe, but not totally safe -- so go slow and be careful. You can even reuse the punched-out primers, but they are less dependable now so use them for practice ammo.

Pullingthe bullets and just reusing the primed brass makes more sense to me.
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is online now  
Old May 17, 2013, 01:38 PM   #27
Ozzieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 4,985
I’ve been working on a thousand 30-06 surplus rounds dated 1942 and 43 for some time. I don’t want to use the primers due to corrosive primers. Also these rounds have their primer swaged in.
As others have said, be slow and wear safety equipment and it’s no problem. I’m through about 500 and none have gone off.
__________________
“Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.” – Thomas Jefferson.

Politician's are like diapers.
You need to change them often,,,,, for the same reason!
Ozzieman is offline  
Old May 17, 2013, 07:47 PM   #28
CrustyFN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,258
I have done it, not a big deal. I reuse the primers in practice ammo.
__________________
I don't ever remember being absent minded.
CrustyFN is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 04:20 PM   #29
JerryM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 1999
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,884
While not totally safe, if you go slow and easy when the decapping punch touches the primer, I don't think there will be a problem. I have done it many times without any problems.

If those rounds were mine I would pull the bullets and deprime them.
Wear safety glassed, of course.

Jerry
__________________
Ecclesiastes 12:13 *¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 *For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
JerryM is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 04:31 PM   #30
pathdoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2013
Posts: 474
Wear safety glasses, hearing protection and long sleeves (preferably white), plus gloves (say, heavy duty gardening gloves), and deprime slowly and smoothly. Keep a bucket of water or a hose with trigger nozzle (or a fire extinguisher if you've got one) ready to go nearby in case anything catches on fire. Move everything flammable well away from the press. Don't fully trust the recovered primers; burn them up in plinking. Expect at least one to go off so you're not completely shocked if it does, and it'll be a bonus if they all don't.

Best of luck.
pathdoc is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 04:38 PM   #31
cookie5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2011
Posts: 201
pull the decap assembly from the sizing die and resize the whole cartridge. That is what I have done.
cookie5 is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 04:47 PM   #32
jcwit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2007
Location: Upper Indiana
Posts: 593
Quote:
Wear safety glasses, hearing protection and long sleeves (preferably white), plus gloves (say, heavy duty gardening gloves), and deprime slowly and smoothly. Keep a bucket of water or a hose with trigger nozzle (or a fire extinguisher if you've got one) ready to go nearby in case anything catches on fire. Move everything flammable well away from the press. Don't fully trust the recovered primers; burn them up in plinking. Expect at least one to go off so you're not completely shocked if it does, and it'll be a bonus if they all don't.

Best of luck.
Explain to me why all this? Its a primer, not a grenade.

When I deprime even live primers the cartridge case is enclosed by the sizing die, the base of the case is enclosed by the shell holder, the open end of the case is filled with the decapping rod which is attached to the sizing die under extreme leverage by the handle of the press.

If perchance a primer would 'go off' its going to go down the hollow ram of the press and in my presses will exit to the rear away from my body, just as the fired primers would.

Has no one here ever had a primer go off using a Lee Loader AKA the 'whack-a-mo', millions of rounds have been loaded using this equipment, and if a primer goes off the priming rod does not even leave your fingers.

In the thousands of primers I've recovered and pressed into another case I've yet to have a misfire that I can remember of, maybe I'm just one lucky pup.

I've only been reloading for over 50 years, what do I know?

Once again, ITS A PRIMER not a grenade.
__________________
U.S. Army Veteran
NRA Certified Range Officer
jcwit is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 01:17 PM   #33
Cascade1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2011
Location: Dutchess County, NY
Posts: 450
Quote:
and long sleeves (preferably white)
Just curious, why white? So you can see the blood?
Cascade1911 is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 01:34 PM   #34
TXGunNut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: If you have to ask...
Posts: 2,851
I've done it, wouldn't recommend it to anyone who doesn't feel comfortable doing it. In this case, as I understand it, I'd just remove the decapping pin, (and carefully put it where I can find it!) fix my mistake and go on. Agreed about the gloves & glasses, tho. Tiny bits launched by primers have potential for a big problem when imbedded under the skin or into the eye....but you're already wearing eye protection, right?
__________________
Life Member NRA, TSRA
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove
My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.
TXGunNut is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 01:54 PM   #35
Ozzieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 4,985
Explain to me why all this? Its a primer, not a grenade.
the base of the case is enclosed by the shell holder
No its not.
I don’t know about the sizing or decapping die you use but when mine is at the top of the stoke the case is sealed inside the sizer.
Using a RSBS Rock chucker the path that the primer can take is toward the operator. If one goes off all the blast and shrapnel will be directed downward through the center of the shell holder toward you.
And although not a hand grenade there is still a lot of energy when in a sealed case with the pressure having nowhere to go other than down.
Cases and primers are cheap, eyes are not.
__________________
“Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.” – Thomas Jefferson.

Politician's are like diapers.
You need to change them often,,,,, for the same reason!
Ozzieman is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 06:57 PM   #36
jcwit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2007
Location: Upper Indiana
Posts: 593
Quote:
I don’t know about the sizing or decapping die you use but when mine is at the top of the stoke the case is sealed inside the sizer.
Using a RSBS Rock chucker the path that the primer can take is toward the operator. If one goes off all the blast and shrapnel will be directed downward through the center of the shell holder toward you.
And although not a hand grenade there is still a lot of energy when in a sealed case with the pressure having nowhere to go other than down.
Cases and primers are cheap, eyes are not.
So hang a towel in front of you, it WILL stop the primer cup from hitting you.

You claim there is a lot of energy in the primer when it goes off in a sealed case, again have you ever set primers with the older and still sold Lee Loader? Once in a while a primer will pop, thats POP. The primer seating rod does not even fly out of your fingers.

BTW the case is NOT, I repeat, NOT sealed, but it is contained by the sizing die.

And again primers are set off by impact, not by pressure slowly applied by the operator.

You are correct in that eyes are not cheap, but I have yet to do ANY reloading operations with my head anywhere near the base of the press or down near the handles linkage.

One is much more likely getting injured going to and from the range. Man UP!

Final answer, one is in more danger eating at Mac's.
__________________
U.S. Army Veteran
NRA Certified Range Officer
jcwit is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 08:03 PM   #37
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 853
No company recommends decapping a live primer. SAMAMI states in their information "The decapping of shells or cases containing live
primers is to be avoided."

So have I done it yes though since the need is so very rare I just shoot most of mine in the gun. I don't reuse the primers so why save them, I don't trust a primer that went through the stress of loading and recapping.

There will come a time that one can or might explode. Certainly you should always consider eye and hearing protection when reloading. You should never ever let the live primers fall into the spent primer tray and build up. One primer can certainly go bang but a bunch of primers can make you wish you only had a grenade going off.

There are worse things you can do with a primer like storing them all together loose in a jar or a can.

IMHO if you are going to do it take the safeguards I mean the worse that you did was try to be a little safer.
Farmland is offline  
Old May 28, 2013, 01:10 PM   #38
Jeff2131
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Spring City, PA
Posts: 408
Agreed, ive primed .308's and crushed plenty of primers because i didnt clean primer pockets when i started out...NEVER had one go off. Also decapped live primers from damaged cases and reinstalled them in new cases and they even fired well! Just take your time and be gentle. But yea, just pull the bullet and recharge and seat. No need to trash yer brass.
Jeff2131 is offline  
Old May 29, 2013, 07:26 PM   #39
SL1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2007
Posts: 2,001
The one thing that I think warrants care is to consideer where the primer would go IF it fired while being decapped. It would basically go where ever your spent primers go, but with much more force. It would probably ricochet a few times unless it goes inside a closed container or hits a loose pile of spent primers in a container.

A ricocheting primer could embed in skin or an eye, because there would be a substantial initial velocity.

Still hanging a towel in the right place should be sufficient to protect yourself.

And, using slow pressure will almost always prevent the primer from firing in the first place.

But, as some have already observed, you can not say "never" just because it hasn't happened to you, yet.

SL1
SL1 is offline  
Old May 29, 2013, 08:27 PM   #40
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
So hang a towel in front of you, it WILL stop the primer cup from hitting you.
From what cause? It isn't going to explode from being pushed out.

Quote:
No company recommends decapping a live primer. SAMAMI states in their information "The decapping of shells or cases containing live
primers is to be avoided."
And no gun company allows reloaded ammo or it voids the warranty.....why? LAWYERS
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old May 30, 2013, 08:52 AM   #41
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 4,130
I was given a bucket of WW2 primed 30-06 cases. These were corrosive crimped primers, nasty stuff.

I got out my Lee decapping die, I had other choices but the Lee was vented at the top, wore safety glasses, and proceeded to remove the primer from most of the cases.

I would carefully lower the decapping pin on top the primer and slowly push the primer out.

Some cases, the primer had rusted in place. Instead of knocking out the primer the decapping pin pierced it and almost every time the primer would ignite with a bang, the cats would run for the exits in panic, and smoke would vent from the top of the die. The primer sidewalls in those cases were so rusted in place it was not worth the bother and I would toss them.

But, wearing safety glasses and using a vented decapping die, I removed about 700 live primers from crimped primer pockets.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old May 31, 2013, 12:33 PM   #42
SL1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2007
Posts: 2,001
Quote:
You claim there is a lot of energy in the primer when it goes off in a sealed case, again have you ever set primers with the older and still sold Lee Loader? Once in a while a primer will pop, thats POP. The primer seating rod does not even fly out of your fingers.

BTW the case is NOT, I repeat, NOT sealed, but it is contained by the sizing die.
I think this is a misconception that requires some correction.

When a primer goes off in a firearm or a priming device, the primer is SUPPORTED from the rear and does not leave the pocket of the case. However, there is plenty of force pushing it outward, and it will move out of the pocket as far as the support allows. In a firearm, the pressure from the powder buring inside the case will then normally push the case back against the same support, reseating the primer flush with the case. In "primer only" cartridges that shoot wax, plastic or rubber bullets, it is necessary to enlarge the flash holes to prevent the primers from backing out and tying-up revolver cylinders, since there is no powder to burn and the case will not be pushed back to reseat the primer.

"Primer only" cartridges" are also a good way of understanding what could happen if a primer fires when it is NOT supported from the rear. The gases and pressure produced by a primer are sufficient to send those wax, plastic or rubber bullets down the barrel of a revolver at a few hundred feet per second, even though the gases must pass throughh a small flash hole into a bigger case volume and pressurize it enough to send those "bullets" down multiple inches of barrel with friction all the way.

Primer cups weigh less than those practice "bullets." And, the primer cup would travel down a "barrel" (made by the hole through the press ram that allows spent primers to fall out when they are decapped) which has much less room for gas expansion than the practice bullets experience. SO, it should be obvious that a primer that is set-off in a decapping situation will come out of the ram at multiple hundreds of feet per second. One can quibble about gas blow-by differences between the ram and the revolver barrel, but that is small potatoes with respect to the end result.

So, to wrap this up again: although it is UNLIKELY that decapping a live primer will set it off if done carefully, the POTENTIAL for the primer cup to become a high-speed projectile is there, and the safety measures that would protect you are simple. So, I see no reason not to decap and not reason to not take the safety measure while doing so.

SL1

Last edited by SL1; May 31, 2013 at 12:52 PM.
SL1 is offline  
Old May 31, 2013, 02:58 PM   #43
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,945
Having done it "X"1,000's of times without incident, the dishtowel* trick makes it pretty much foolproof.
(mucho helpful in my case)


* I use a Bandana to trap ejecting brass. `Don't know why it wouldn't trap "ejecting" primers too.
mehavey is offline  
Old May 31, 2013, 03:44 PM   #44
jcwit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2007
Location: Upper Indiana
Posts: 593
Quote:
Primer cups weigh less than those practice "bullets." And, the primer cup would travel down a "barrel" (made by the hole through the press ram that allows spent primers to fall out when they are decapped) which has much less room for gas expansion than the practice bullets experience. SO, it should be obvious that a primer that is set-off in a decapping situation will come out of the ram at multiple hundreds of feet per second. One can quibble about gas blow-by differences between the ram and the revolver barrel, but that is small potatoes with respect to the end result.
I'll have to try chronographing a primer cup sometime.
__________________
U.S. Army Veteran
NRA Certified Range Officer
jcwit is offline  
Old May 31, 2013, 04:44 PM   #45
David Bachelder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Location: Trinity, Texas
Posts: 632
Yes.

Use common sense. Drape a towell over your press, go slow, wear safety glasses. Ear plugs are not a bad idea either. Load up a primed case in a revolver and let her rip. It is incredibly loud, especially inside a small room like mine.

Too many Rock And Roll concerts in my past, I can't hear very well and I don't need any more damage.
__________________
David Bachelder
Trinity, Texas
I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06
David Bachelder is offline  
Old May 31, 2013, 05:45 PM   #46
jcwit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2007
Location: Upper Indiana
Posts: 593
Both of my presses that I would use for depriming eject the primers to the rear, henceforth it is a non issue.
__________________
U.S. Army Veteran
NRA Certified Range Officer
jcwit is offline  
Old May 31, 2013, 05:57 PM   #47
Ted D
Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2013
Location: Dayton.Ohio
Posts: 72
I have only been reloading since Jan. I ve deprimed live primers many a times with the Lee decaper with no issues.small pistol primers.And reuse them with no problems.
__________________
LIFE MEMBER OF THE NRA.GREENHORN RELOADER
Ted D is offline  
Old May 31, 2013, 08:50 PM   #48
wncchester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2002
Posts: 2,832
"Never attempt to deprime live primers, eventually one will go off, when it does it will detonate the others in the spent primer cup. Decapping live primers is the single most dangerous thing you can do while reloading."

Fer goodness sake, they're lil' bitty primers, not sticks of dynamite! No armor is required, just decap live ones normally but don't let them pile up in a catcher.

Oil soaking will kill primers, 100% ... in a week or so.
wncchester is offline  
Old June 1, 2013, 12:20 AM   #49
shastaboat
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2010
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 26
I don't usually post here but I've been handloading for 45+ years and have deprimed many hot primers. Never had one go off. Just use a steady smooth action and catch the primer and re-use it when you want.

I can't believe some of the BS answers here. The comments I also laugh at is when someone says if you touch a primer it will be contaminated...such complete BS.
shastaboat is offline  
Old June 1, 2013, 09:49 PM   #50
Sport45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Too close to Houston
Posts: 4,070
For straight walled cases you can raise the decapping rod for this. Raising it enough to not deprime a bottleneck case may put the sizing button too high in the die so I'd just remove it. You'll have an undersized case neck, but that just means more neck tension which isn't a bad thing.

There's not enough room for the case neck is the sizing button on the decapping rod is pulled up into the neck sizing area of the die.
__________________
Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.
Sport45 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.15244 seconds with 7 queries