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Old May 16, 2013, 10:18 AM   #1
Kimio
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Questions about LEO personal side arms among others

I've been a bit curious about what the typical LEO' loadout usually consists of, I know this is completely subjective to what the individual LEO's agency can afford and how large their particular agency is.

I've had the privilage to speak with a number of LEO's in the past, and those (at least that served in Illinois and Arizona) said that their particular agencies typically provided them with a standard set of equipment that they were allowed to carry. My uncle for example, had his duty pistol (A Glock of some flavor if I recall) and then he was allowed to carry a back up handgun of his choice so long as it was chambered in 9mm.

That said, I was wonderings as to what those of you who have served or are still serving usually are allowed to carry. Some officers as I understand are allowed to bring with them in their squad cars a patrol rifle or shotgun. How much ammunition would be typical for say a patrol.

For those that may be State troopers, does your load out differ in any way from city LEO's? Is it uncommon for LEO's to wear kevlar or body armor while on patrol (I'd imagine that such gear is given as needed to the LEO when the need arises, though I've also been told that in some cases, where budgets are relatively small, LEO's may need to provide their own)

For those of you who've been issued a duty pistol, what kind of handgun were you issued and in what caliber? Did you ever have any misgivings with that particular handgun (Such as desiring a different caliber or what have you). Have any of you been placed in a position where you had to draw or fire your side arm (Hopefully not, but such is the risks of being a LEO I presume)

Lately I've been kind of fascinated with how LEO's operate and what they encounter on a daily basis, what with all the attention they've been getting in the media recently.

Thank you for your service, and I look forward to hearing what those of you who serve or are serving have to say on this matter.

Kimio

Last edited by Kimio; May 20, 2013 at 07:29 AM. Reason: grammer and spelling errors
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Old May 16, 2013, 12:05 PM   #2
lcpiper
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Quote:
Is it uncommon for LEO's to wear kevlar or body armor while on patrol
I am not in law enforcement but I think you'll find that the issueing of and wearing of body armor is anything but uncommon and in most departments it's probably mandatory to wear while on patrol duty.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...armor/1707913/
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Old May 16, 2013, 12:39 PM   #3
shouldazagged
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Before our county PD was absorbed into a Metro force, officers were issued SIG duty guns and ordered to carry only SIG's off duty or as backup. The 230 was the one, as I recall. The combined PD issues Glocks, the G22. Not sure if the choice of backup is mandated.

I don't know what they're using now, but some years ago an Indiana State Police trooper told me they were ordered to carry a .380 as the off-duty weapon. Don't remember for sure, but I think he said it was the PPK. Not sure, the memory is a little dim (as am I).
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Old May 16, 2013, 08:44 PM   #4
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^^^^correct... old County Police had Sigs- which they had to purchase, for both duty and backup/off duty. 9mm 226 was required in the academy, then when off probation if they qualified with the 220 45 acp they could carry that, and a .380 for backup/off duty.

Old City Police- started off with S&W 6906 9mm's, then in '98 went to the Glock 22 .40, which were issued. Off duty/backup was anything you could qualify with .380 or larger. I carried a Colt LW Commander off duty, and a Colt Cobra snubby for backup in an ankle holster.

Ky State Police carried S&W 3rd gen 10mm forever- 1076 and a Walther PPK .380 as the only allowed backup/off duty. They now carry a Glock 22 and 23, both issued.

I hated the Glock, and .40, which was why I never carried it off duty. Likewise, the 6906 was a great gun, just too small for a duty gun. Remington 870 or S&W 3000 shotguns were available if you wanted one. Patrol rifles were whatever you had hidden in your trunk- seen a lot of M1 carbines- until approved to carry AR15's around 2000...
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Old May 19, 2013, 12:29 PM   #5
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My agency has an "approved list" of firearms that one may qualify with. If a particular weapon is not on the list it can be submitted for approval. Mostly seen with 1911 pistols or AR variants.
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Old May 19, 2013, 09:19 PM   #6
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The Dept. I work for issues the Sig 229, or we can choose to purchase off of an approved list. I also carry a S&W 640 as back-up/off duty. I tend to bounce back and forth between the S&W and the Sig for off duty carry as mood and wardrobe dictate.

Since I moved to investigations, I don't wear the vest as much as I should, but wore it religiously when in uniform.
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Old May 19, 2013, 10:52 PM   #7
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I'm not LE, but a lot of my regulars are.

Portland PD:
9mm Gen 3 Glocks. Mostly 17s. Undercovers seem to carry 26s. Speer Gold Dot +P 124gr ammunition is standard at the moment, I believe. A couple of them have told me that's all they carry off duty, as well.

I believe officers can qualify for/with patrol rifles, but have to provide the rifle themselves.


I think Beaverton PD is carrying Glock 17s... Oregon State Police issue Glock 22s... Washington State Police carry S&W M&P 40s...

That's all I know, off the top of my head.
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Old May 19, 2013, 11:21 PM   #8
ChrisTx
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I worked for a couple of agencies and the policies vary. I will tell you that I greatly appreciate the value in allowing officers to choose their own duty weapon. Having one you're not particularly fond of forced upon you doesn't inspire much in the way of confidence, unless you are a fan of that specific gun. I carried a gun on my hip, one clipped to my vest, one in my bag in the passenger seat (hard to unholster you're primary when you're seated and buckled), a rifle and a shotgun. My duty guns have been the following:
Beretta 96
Colt 1911
Glock 32
Springfield 1911
Beretta 92
My backup was a S&W j frame in 357.

Once you carry a rifle, there doesn't seem to be a lot of use for the shotgun. I am not a fan of any of the non-lethal shotgun rounds. I took a massive chunk out of a cinder block wall with one. I can't imagine what that would do to a person's head. If you pull any kind of gun on someone, it should be loaded with real bullets. Same goes for those stupid 'pepper ball' guns. We shot each other with them and got a good laugh, with a few coughs thrown in.

A lot of office brass types wear uniforms and no vest. One in a department in my county will never get another chance to remedy that mistake. It would have been an easily survivable wound with a vest. They're uncomfortable and terribly hot, but I never went a day without mine.
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Old May 20, 2013, 01:14 AM   #9
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My father in law is a local homicide detective. When he is in "casual dress" (slacks and either a button up with sport coat, or polo type shirt and light jacket) he carries a Glock 26 and 2 mags, 1 1/2" folding knife, 2 cell AA Maglite, cuffs, and pepper spray. The occasions that require his official uniform, it's either a Sig 226 or Glock 19 (depending on his mood), two spare mags for either pistol, cuffs, 3" folding knife, a 3 "D" cell mag light, cuffs, pepper spray, and tazer. He will occasionally carry a J frame as backup, but its pretty rare these days.

Earlier in his career he was also the SWAT team leader and depending on the mood, carried either a Kimber 1911, a Browning HiPower, or Glock 19..............of course during that period he was also packing either an MP5SD2, M4 type carbine, full size UZI 9mm, or his favorite, a Galil captured in a drug raid. He got to play with a Glock 18 and Berretta 93R on the range a few times, but, as fun as they were on the range, they were a bit impractical for everyday carry. He also said they had at least one each S&W M76 and Ruger MP9 sub-machine guns in the armory, but I can't recall if he ever carried either of those.

He started his career as a patrol officer with a S&W in .38 Special, cuffs, night stick, and a J frame as backup.
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Last edited by Crankylove; May 20, 2013 at 05:31 PM.
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Old May 20, 2013, 07:33 AM   #10
Kimio
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Interesting, so most agencies sound like they give their LEO's a fairly decent variety in terms of what they are allowed to carry as a side arm.

For the longest time I was under the impression that there was a very strict limitation on what an officer was allowed to carry (From what my uncle had told me, his PD required his duty gun to be 9mm preferably a glock so that in the event he and another officer were found to be in need of using their side arm, they could swap magazines if necessary)

This has been a very educational experience, and again I thank you all for your service.

I of course welcome any more input from other members here who've served on the force
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Old May 20, 2013, 05:47 PM   #11
Glenn Dee
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My agency didnt issue anything... we had to buy everything. But the good news is that we could buy any gun we wanted as long as it was a blue steel, fixed sight, six shot revolver with a 4 inch barrel manufactured by Colt, S&W, and later Ruger. And we had a choice of holsters. Reguation fixed or regulation swivel. Mandatory loadout was the service revolver, 12 extra rounds, a pen holder, Regulation handcuff case, S&W or peerless handcuffs, Flashlight, wistle, white gloves, Baton (after 4PM) Day billet (Between 8am and 4pm)

Optional; slapper/blackjack, second gun, ballistic resistant vest, second set of handcuffs, pocket knife, P/38, camera.

By the time we went to auto pistols things had changed. Service pistol 30 extra rounds in two magazines, Handcuffs, flashlight, pen holder, gas mask, colapsable baton, or PR24 baton, latex gloves, and I guess a bunch more I never had to get. The vest is now mandatory.
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Old May 22, 2013, 12:38 PM   #12
Tucker 1371
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My buddy I deployed with is a Sherrifs Deputy here in East TN, their department requires a vest be worn on patrol and issues Glock 22s for patrol officers and G23s for plain clothes officers and CID personnel.
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Old May 22, 2013, 04:00 PM   #13
Jeff #111
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The Glock 21 is the primary issued pistol with the G19 serving as the alternative choice. Anyone hired after October 2007 is only issued the G21. if the new hire just can't handle the big grip of the G21 they can carry the G30.

I know it's strange. I didn't make the policy. And why the G19 instead of the G32? I don't know and I didn't make that decision either.

I carry the Glock 19.I don't like the big old grip of the G21 and I do like the grips of the G19. I am authorized to carry the G19 off duty.

For back-ups and off-duty I can carry up to three handguns of my choice - I just have to be able to qualify with them. Revolvers and semi-autos are authorized. Ruger, S&W, Glock, Colt, Taurus, Sig-Sauer, Beretta, H&K, Walther and Browning are all allowed and any of those companies models are good to go.

The only restriction is calibers which have to be between 32 and 45. In addition to my G19 I am qualified on the G26 and the S&W Model 49 Bodyguard. The G26 and model 49 are personally owned. The Model 49 is my backup and the G26 is usually my off-duty piece.

I know several officers who carry a 1911 government for their off-duty piece.
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Old May 22, 2013, 04:45 PM   #14
LockedBreech
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Here's some info on departments I have regularly interacted with in Wyoming:

Wyoming Highway Patrol, which my dad worked for for a few decades, went like this:

Smith & Wesson 686 .357 Magnum
Beretta 92FS 9mm
Beretta 96G .40 S&W
Glock 22 3rd-Generation .40 S&W
(current) Smith & Wesson M&P 40 .40 S&W

Gillette, WY municipal PD uses the 3rd-Generation Glock 22 with Speer Gold Dot 180-grain. They have had success with the load in actual shootings.

Laramie, WY PD has a very liberal weapons policy. Most reputable brands are fine. The sergeant and officer that came to my door when all the cars on my street got keyed had an HK USP .45 and a Kimber Stainless TLE 1911. Interestingly, it was the younger officer with the 1911.

Rock Springs, WY PD carries Sig Sauer P226 in .40 S&W and used them successfully in several shootings over the last few years.

Almost every Sheriff's Office in WY had a very liberal weapons policy, as do many of the municipal departments. Practically anything can be seen in a holster, with Glock, Smith & Wesson, HK, Sig, and various higher-end makes of 1911 making regular appearances. I particularly enjoyed attending a Wyoming Peace Officers Academy graduation a year or two back. The variety of firearms was very cool.

Like a lot of gun-friendly rural states, our police might see a lot less action than urban departments, but I'd put the shooting chops of any Wyoming officer against any NYPD officer outside of ESU any day, and a good number of them even against ESU. Don't start trouble in WY, most of our officers enjoy guns and shoot as much as we do.
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Old May 23, 2013, 07:01 AM   #15
Tucker 1371
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Quote:
The Glock 21 is the primary issued pistol with the G19 serving as the alternative choice. Anyone hired after October 2007 is only issued the G21. if the new hire just can't handle the big grip of the G21 they can carry the G30.
They're using two different calibers? .45 and 9mm?
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Old May 23, 2013, 02:16 PM   #16
ftttu
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Our agency's policy says we have to wear body armor.

I've drawn my duty weapon many times, but I've never had to fire at anyone. Just took out a few deer and a cow after they were struck by vehicles.

Basically, our policy says for uniformed duty, we have to carry personally owned Glock .40 calibers models, but we can only carry a model 27 as a backup, off duty or in plain clothes duty. Our policy doesn't say it but we are grandfathered for other weapons like my former Beretta 96D. I can't remember all of the particulars at this second, but we can also carry 9mm and .380 for non-uniformed duty. I think we can carry 9mm as a backup weapon though. I'll check on that. I normally carry my Browning BDA 380 as an off duty weapon, but I sometimes carry my former main on and off duty carry-H&K P2000. Just depends on the circumstances at the time what I carry.

To add, I duty carry a Gen 4 Glock 23 with a 3.5 lbs trigger job, night sites, Hoque grip, and a USMC eagle, globe and anchor emblem on the rear.
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:15 PM   #17
BuckRub
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My agency's here in Central Texas don't buy firearms or vests. Vests are not mandatory. I don't wear one agency, a city I'm employed with you can carry anything from a nine up as long as you qualify with it. Next city I work for is the same but any gun basically that you qualify with.

I carry a Glock Gen 4 model 22, has a 3.5 # ghost connector, competition spring kit. Two extra mags, fox OC spray, sometimes a baton. A full box of Federal Hydra Shoks in my car.
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:37 PM   #18
allaroundhunter
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Re: Questions about LEO personal side arms among others

Buckrub, so you lightened the trigger pull on a duty gun?

Heck, I did the same thing with my Glock 34 but it is my competition gun and because of its lighter trigger I really wouldn't want to do the same with a duty pistol.
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:42 PM   #19
BuckRub
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I'm glad that people can be different. It'd be boring if we were all the same. I love my Glock.
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:44 PM   #20
allaroundhunter
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Re: Questions about LEO personal side arms among others

Out of curiosity, what is the trigger pull weight on your G22?
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:49 PM   #21
BuckRub
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3.1 lbs
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Old May 23, 2013, 05:57 PM   #22
BuckRub
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I'm not recommending everyone go out and do this. Most officers I'm around shoot once a year and that's when qualifying. And then they just barely do that. I've had this Glock about 1 1/2 years and shoot it about 4-5 days a week. I shoot tons of anything and everything. For most it probably would be an accident waiting to happen for them or others. After you shoot thousands upon thousands you should know everything about your gun. This is not recommended for the average shooter that's shoots a box a month.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:47 PM   #23
armsmaster270
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Here is my off duty loadout



Sig 226 357Sig & S&W 340PD .357Mag. With Pepper Spray, Mini light and extra 12 round Mag.
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Old May 24, 2013, 12:24 AM   #24
Ignition Override
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An ICE agent who gave me his business card has a Saiga 7.62x39 and either an HK or Glock as sidearm. Don't remember which handgun caliber.
He plinks at a very popular location.

A coworker's husband is a detective in a small town in a nearby state.
I don't remember which duty guns he uses (owns an M-1A), but a deputy in his office let me handle the Mini 14 with red dot sight in his patrol car.

Two years ago a deputy from either Shelby or a nearby county told me that his department was swapping their standard Sig 5.56 rifles for ARs.
He said something about a problem with the Sigs.

LockedBreech: A friend who is retired has a family of milsurp rifles in a vault with a Huge heap of centerfire ammo. My ten thousand won't quite compare...
He would like to live in beautiful, gun-friendly WY except for the winters, will soon visit your state and might buy a small summer cabin.

Last edited by Ignition Override; May 24, 2013 at 12:39 AM.
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Old May 24, 2013, 01:30 AM   #25
ftttu
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BuckRub, I've got the Ghost 3.5 and the competition spring set from glock store.com. I haven't measured the trigger pull after the change, but I estimate it somewhere in the 3 to 4 lbs range. Really happy with it, but even so, I don't recommend it for all LEOs. With most officers only firing their weapons once or twice a year during a basic qualification course and most not being gun enthusiasts, the lighter trigger isn't the best choice. Fine finger control is lost during high stress situations(tachy psyche effect).

I also don't recommend a .380 for CCW/off-duty for officers and/or civilians who aren't experienced and/or are gun enthusiasts. I believe shot placement and quantity generally play more of a larger role with this caliber.
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