The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old May 18, 2013, 10:53 AM   #51
lamarw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 1,746
I posted the following in another recent thread. April was the 35th consecutive month of increase over increase of firearms sells. This April sells were over 27% higher than April 2012.

The above indicates to me as long as firearms are continuing to increase in sells, there is most likely going to be a continued increase in ammunition and firearms related items demand.

I buy most of my reloading supplies from Powder Valley, Precision Delta and Berry's. Precision's lead time is over 18 weeks for bullet head in most calibers, and their loaded ammuntion has a lead time of 6 months. Berry's is not even taking orders on most of their line of bullets. Powder Valley has been out of a vast majority of primers since January of this year. Their primer prices have already gone up by as much as two dollars per thousand since then without any stockage.

In my opinion, ammunition and/or supplies are not going to normalize until firearms sells drop. I doubt we will ever see regular retail prices go back to the 2011/2012 mark.
lamarw is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 10:55 AM   #52
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,990
My stock is getting a little low, but I am not paying any inflated prices. I am just not going to pay a buck a round for 9mm FMJ; if that constitutes a boycott, so be it. I pick up stuff at normal prices when I can, and that includes showing up at WalMart at 7:00 AM on my days off sometimes. On one of those occasions, waiting for the ammo to arrive at the desk, I chatted with a guy who claimed to have a friend with 50K rounds of .22LR stockpiled. Ridiculous if true, but a few of those in a town would account for a shortage.
TailGator is online now  
Old May 18, 2013, 01:31 PM   #53
P5 Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2005
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 1,145
I did

I have not bought any ammo in the last five years with the exception of some 12 gauge, and a couple of bricks of CCI Green Tag.
Now handloading components a slightly different story, but I'm well stocked there too, for now.
P5 Guy is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 01:59 PM   #54
gaseousclay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 4, 2010
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 869
This is too funny. Gun owners spoiling it for other gun owners and then complaining about it on a gun forum. News flash, the shortage isn't going to go away anytime soon. Those that missed out on ammo are going to come in and buy it up as it becomes available. It's been said before, gun owners are their own worst enemy
gaseousclay is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 04:23 PM   #55
JerryM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 1999
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,884
The hoarders, and dealers who buy it and sell at scalping prices would not abide by it.
So buy it if you see it, and want it.
Jerry
__________________
Ecclesiastes 12:13 *¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 *For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
JerryM is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 05:50 PM   #56
cookie5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2011
Posts: 201
I haven't bought ammo since 2010.
cookie5 is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 07:08 PM   #57
Silver00LT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 286
Whats ridiculous is the PMC ammo going for $69.95 for a pack of 50 on CTD. I paid $20 for the same amount. $17-20 is the normal amount depending on how big the mom n pop business are.
__________________
My YouTube MOLON LABE
Training pays off...so keep active with your firearm. It could save your life one day.
Silver00LT is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 07:25 PM   #58
campbed
Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 55
Getting better in NH. 3 Saturdays in a row, a LGS has had 9mm in stock, limit 2 boxes per customer.

Read: the LGS owners don't let the employees buy most every shipment for themselves and their friends, and then flip it on Gunbroker. Not mentioning any big box store names, but you know what I mean.

Blazer Brass, $11.99 for box of 50.

YMMV.
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis
SIG P226 MK25 9mm | SIG 239 9mm | Beretta Nano
SIG M400 Enhanced Black | JRC Carbine 9mm
campbed is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 08:59 PM   #59
spaniel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2008
Posts: 189
Haven't seen 22LR on a shelf since the first week of January. Just started my daughter shooting...who would have dreamed that 22LR would go missing...sorry, if I see it I'm buying it. She will shoot us out in 6 months.
spaniel is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 09:22 PM   #60
grindal
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Posts: 6
The issue remains and will continue to remain the scalpers who are running out the low price local stores every day and selling through whatever means at double or triple prices. And as long as there is somebody weak minded enough and willing to pay their prices it will continue - at this point it has become a self fulfilling prophesy.

I know this because I went through the 08-09 panic and now this one working on the other side of the counter. My store regularly gets small hits of ammo about 5 days a week and we limit to one box of ammo per caliber per day. Almost every day we open to the same 10 customers waiting in line, drooling over the opportunity to get at something in bulk - especially 22 LR. It is not difficult to overhear them bragging about how much money they will make at the next gun show.

When they are done with their daily purchases there is rarely much left for the common man with a job who is not able to stand outside a store for 2 hours every day. Thus it is my opinion that these people have the market essentially cornered at this point. In 09 it took a huge influx of Russian and European made ammo to put a stop to the madness. As soon as the common man could walk in and find what he was looking for regularly the ridiculous gun show prices stopped in their tracks and things came back to normal.

To that end I try to influence every one I can to stop paying overpriced scalpers and to be patient - at this point it is all that will stop this.
grindal is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 09:46 PM   #61
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,340
Quote:
It is not difficult to overhear them bragging about how much money they will make at the next gun show.
If they're making it clear that they're going to be flipping it, I'd refuse to sell to them. There's plenty of folks who want it for their own protection and enjoyment, and those are the folks who are going to be repeat customers when the whole drama dies down.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 11:10 PM   #62
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 1,882
One LGS here has identified some of the scalpers and is selling them one box a day, no more. A brick of .22 is ten boxes, according to the owner, when these guys come around.

I think it's getting better up here, LGS has about 10 cases in stock this week, and powder expected any day. Another larger LGS is getting stocked up in primers and ammo, and some bulk bullets.

One shop sold 6 Dillon RL550b presses in a week, this is in a rural county with 90,000 population, so looks like handloading is going to be a lot more popular.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 11:52 PM   #63
Nittespanker
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2013
Posts: 70
I went to a gunshow today and a guy had boxs of Winchester 555 .22 LR ammo for 100.00. He asked me if I wanted a box(he had 3 boxs) and I said "that's more than I'm willing to pay so ill pass". He took offense to that and said he was in business to make a profit. Well that fired me off and I replied back.....buying ammo at Walmart and reselling if for Quadruple the price is not business it's called scalping. I said it calm and cool and walked off.

Same guy had Winchester white box 9mm 100 rnd boxs for 75 a box and 85 for .45acp.

All Walmart ammo.

Another guy had some bushmaster AR's for 1600.00.

I remarked to one dealer that had reasonable prices....."why is it that some dealers here act like the worlds ending when it's clear that its not" he laughed and said their not true business people but trying to prey on the ignorant. I agreed.
Nittespanker is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 12:00 AM   #64
saleen322
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2010
Posts: 333
I load most all of my ammo and I can load around 48 different cartridges more or less. The only center fire I have bought recently is .327 magnum because I don't have much brass. It has always been available and consistent in price in the $20-$25 range per 50 even before Nov of last year. My guess is the resellers don't see a market in it. I was about out of 22 match ammo that I shoot in pistol matches, SK Standard Plus. This ammo is made by Lapua and is marketed as Wolf Match-Target as well as the SK brand. It is a good value in that it returns very good accuracy at a reasonable price and you have to pay a lot more to get measurably better accuracy. I bought a case of 5000 a couple of years ago I think it was around $440 which works out to $4.40 per box of 50. A couple of days ago I checked on availability and, if the price was okay, to order a case of SK Standard Plus or Wolf match-target. It was out of stock at the first place I checked but in stock for $490 a case at the second. The person on the phone was polite but she did ask what I was shooting it out of. "I have a FAS 602, a Benelli 90, and....." She stopped me there and asked how much I wanted and I told her a case of 5000 if that was doable. Although she did not come out and ask, I am thinking the question was to get a feel if I was going to resell it. A quick look on gunbroker and I saw SK and Wolf for about twice that with bids. I don't buy/use cheap .22 LR so I am not tracking prices on it but talking to the local Walmart sporting dept manager, he said they are getting the same amounts of .22 in but it is selling out in a couple of hours. In any case, I don't see a need for me to buy anything much the rest of the year. I will see where the prices are then.

Last edited by saleen322; May 19, 2013 at 12:06 AM.
saleen322 is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 02:31 AM   #65
SocialAnarchist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 278
The facts are simple. We the consumer control the market. Whether by buying out all the ammo we see in stores or supporting the scalpers by paying their insane prices.

Until the latest panic I was buying 525 round Remington bricks when they were on sale, and usually alternating every paycheck buying a box or .45acp and 9mm. I simply refuse to pay these ridiculous prices and it will be a cold day in hell before I pay more than $25 for a brick of .22lr.

Fortunately, I have a good amount on hand and I haven't played into the panic buying. I shop at a small local gunstore most often and they have been getting in small quantities of .22lr, 9mm and .45acp and the prices, while not pre-panic, are pretty good.
SocialAnarchist is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 03:38 AM   #66
Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 3,652
I reload, and have been able to get components at or near pre-panic prices, so my centerfire shooting hasn't changed. However, .22LR is a different story. I still have a decent amount, but shoot it less now. I will NOT pay artificially inflated prices for ammo nor guns, so unless it is priced at or near pre-panic prices, I don't buy it.

Recently, at a gun shop I frequent one of the employees came up to me all excited because they got 9MM in, and did I want any. I thanked him profusely but indicated I reload, and at those prices don't want them. He was shocked. I guess they've been able to sell all they get at these inflated prices. Well that will change.
__________________
Pilot
Pilot is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 05:53 AM   #67
Shipwrecked
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2013
Posts: 5
Entertaining read

Here in the UK we have always paid a bit more for things than on the other side of the pond, especially petrol - now £1.30 litre. However, despite price rises I have never seen a shortage of ammunition. There may be times when a dealer won't stock a certain round but will order it in if you want it. We are restricted by our certificates on how much we can store and stockpilling 50K would never happen, even dealers don't hold that in 22lr. A few thousand would be tops and you'd have to show a history of purchase and usage to the police to waarant this amount.

Are some of your people expecting armageddon to need so much. Why aren't the dealers recognising who is stockpiling and tell them to jog on as they have had enough over a month.
Price wise we are £150/1000 for Eley Match but can get rounds as low as £50/1000 for less accurate but still good ammunition. Full bore is more or less a pound a bang for most normal calibres but 9mm is a lot lot less.
Shipwrecked is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 06:35 AM   #68
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,027
"Here in the UK we have always paid a bit more for things than on the other side of the pond, especially petrol - now £1.30 litre."

That's $7.56 a US gallon. And the lion's share of that price is the Crown's road fuels tax plus the VAT.

That's not the case with ammunition. These prices are being driven strictly by market forces -- supply and demand.

There's lots of yelling and screaming about how the government is buying up ammo to push prices higher and get it out of the hands of the average gunowner, but that's a bunch of tripe.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 07:25 AM   #69
Silver00LT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 286
Quote:
"Here in the UK we have always paid a bit more for things than on the other side of the pond, especially petrol - now £1.30 litre."

That's $7.56 a US gallon. And the lion's share of that price is the Crown's road fuels tax plus the VAT.

That's not the case with ammunition. These prices are being driven strictly by market forces -- supply and demand.

There's lots of yelling and screaming about how the government is buying up ammo to push prices higher and get it out of the hands of the average gunowner, but that's a bunch of tripe.
My opinion I believe the 'fear' of the government hoarding ammunition is what caused the shortage that we have now since people hoard it all they can. I think I only have 200 rounds of factory made ammo. That's it...

All it takes is one little fear nerve and everything caves.
__________________
My YouTube MOLON LABE
Training pays off...so keep active with your firearm. It could save your life one day.
Silver00LT is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 08:21 AM   #70
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,027
"My opinion I believe the 'fear' of the government hoarding ammunition is what caused the shortage"

There was no fear of the government hoarding ammunition in 2007-2009, and yet it was in very short supply.

The initial reports of the Government signing on to purchase up to 1.5 billion rounds of ammo first came out mid last year, yet there was no run on ammo at that time.

In 2007-2009 the fear was that whatever Democrat was elected would immediately push for draconian gun control laws.

Fear of the government buying up all the ammo didn't push the high firearms sale rate at that time.

This time around the cause was the shootings in Newtown and the Government response.

If it were just fear of the Government purchasing all of the ammo, gun sales wouldn't have spiked massively the way they did, and the way they continue to sell.

The only people who are hoarding ammo in the belief that the Government is trying to buy it all are those who are either incapable of understanding, or simply won't accept, the actual truth behind the 1.5 billion purchase contracts.

People are spreading unfounded and unnecessary fear on that subject, and have no comprehension of the actual mechanics of government purchasing or the capabilities of the companies that manufacture ammunition.

IF, and I say IF, the Government actually wanted to do something like that to control the civilian flow of ammunition, they would have to order probably along the lines of 1.5 billion rounds a MONTH, not spread over a 5 year contract vehicle.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 09:08 AM   #71
CharlieDeltaJuliet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2012
Posts: 750
Saleen322, I recently bought SK/Lapua .22 from Grafs & Sons. It was $456. I thought that exactly right for 5k rounds. It is what I paid pre-panic. I was running low and they came through in a pinch. Keep an eye on them if you need more.
__________________
" The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect
themselves against tyranny in Government.
..." - Thomas Jefferson
CharlieDeltaJuliet is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 09:27 AM   #72
saleen322
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2010
Posts: 333
Quote:
Price wise we are £150/1000 for Eley Match but can get rounds as low as £50/1000 for less accurate but still good ammunition.
Here Eley Team, Match, and Tenex are around $10, $14.50, and $19 respectively per 50 round box. Those prices have been stable for the most part. As to why buy in quantity, in my area you can't go to most local gun shops and buy even mid-level .22 ammo. Therefore, at least in my case, it makes sense to buy it by the case as it has to be shipped to you. The biggest demand is for cheap .22 LR and that is what is stocked 99% of the time in the LGS and that is where the prices fluctuate so much. Similarly, if you compete in center fire pistol you can go through 1000s of rounds in a short period of time between practice and matches so you want to keep some on hand.
saleen322 is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 09:51 AM   #73
deepcreek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 320
I went to a big box sporting good store yesterday and took a glance at the ammo they had 7mm, 270, 30-06, 12g, 20g and the handguns were 2/3s back to normal stock, rifles were back to full stock. The sales people were bored and unbusy which was unusual on a Saturday afternoon.

Seem like things are returning to normal.
deepcreek is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 10:06 AM   #74
JWT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,148
When the shelves are empty most of the time it's hard not to buy when you run across a caliber you shoot. I was amazed to find a Remington value pack of 250 rd. of 45ACP at WalMart yesterday. Of course I bought it. Price wasn't bad either, just over $100. Could I have gone with out it? Sure. But never know when I might have a chance to find it again at a reasonable choice.

I know quite a few people that are getting up on Saturday morning before 7:00 to line up at the local Sportsmans Warehouse innn order to get a look at the latest shipment of ammo. It's gonna take a while for that mentality (and need in many cases) to subside.
JWT is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 10:15 AM   #75
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,594
I think the Senate voting down of proposed gun control legislation has helped a great deal to calm people's fear reaction/instinct. Legislation or proposed legislation will continue, but Presidents really don't want a lot of failed legislation proposals that they really support and push to happen. Looks bad for them; no power or influence. That is probably why the President didn't actively push such gun control legislation early in his first term.

The ammunition shortage started with the re-election of our President in November. At that time, gun sales shot through the roof to record sales highs based on NICS checks performed. It was also the Christmas season buying time.

Then Newtown CT incident happened and the politicans began stomping their feet. NY quickly passed very restrictive gun control legislation. Since then, MD and CO have passed restrictive legislation. You had the ongoing debate in Congress and the media about gun control. The proposed legislation died in the Senate and everyone knew that it was going to be a more difficult road to hoe in the House. Well, those House members didn't get subjected to the intense pressure from the President and their Party when they knew the legislation could influence their future public careers.

It's late May 2013 now and 6 months after the re-election of the President. There is little talk on the News networks about gun control, and inventories are up with black rifles at you local gunshop and prices are down. I would suspect sales of those kinds of weapons are also down relative to Nov > Jan levels.

People who pay attention see inventories of ammunition starting to come back to their local retailers. Prices are coming down, but still elevated over pre-election levels, and inventories will continue to become more robust and suppliers will begin to have popular ammunition in stock for shipment to dealers on request. Things are changing. I expect them to change rapidly in the coming couple of months.

Those that care who would like to maintain a cache of ammunition at home should begin buying on a regular basis in a couple months and start building their cache so that they aren't in the same place as this shortage whether it be firearms or ammunition. Time for some rational buying and planning based on your available resources.

Last edited by 22-rimfire; May 19, 2013 at 10:27 AM.
22-rimfire is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13279 seconds with 7 queries