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Old May 15, 2013, 08:29 AM   #1
southjk
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More fuel for Glock and MIM haters

I just read that the Florida Sheriff's office is complaining about a number of failures with their service pistols. So much so that Glock sent a rep to work with the dept in person.

What is the problem? Faulty MIM strikers causing failures to fire.

Another case against MIM?

Article here.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:39 AM   #2
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Yeah yeah yeah. I know...I know Robert Hasmi. It's unfortunate...I totally spoke to him after I saw his name online. He's working on one of my guns right now. (A 1911) I definitely got home and checked out my G19 that was at my 4:00 all day it was fine.

Bad news travels fast. I personally think it might have been a maintenance issue. I've seen Hk firing pins snap before too.

However the blame on the ammunition? Is purely a cop out. I love Glock. But come on now Glock...Really? The ammunition? Please -___-


Other departments locally checked theirs out too and they seem to be fine. Gables PD ordered, well..demanded new firing pins from Glock.

I'll be following up on this.
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Old May 15, 2013, 09:40 AM   #3
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Let us know exactly how instead of " it broke" .
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Old May 15, 2013, 09:45 AM   #4
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Don't know what might be the cause of the problem, but it's strange that the problem -- whatever it is -- is limited to one police department. If it were something like MIM parts, you'd think all of the other Glock users would be experiencing some problems of a similar nature.

Police departments typically don't shoot their weapons nearly as often as do civilian shooters, and if it were a MIM issue, I think it would have raised it's ugly head somewhere else, A LOT!

Sounds more like a bad lot of parts that may have affected only a relatively small number of guns.
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Old May 15, 2013, 09:57 AM   #5
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Sounds more like a bad lot of parts that may have affected only a relatively small number of guns.
Agreed...something smells fishy in that one area. If it were a serious manufacturer issue, it would be a lot more widespread.
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Old May 15, 2013, 10:08 AM   #6
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Regardless I imagine the Glock fanboys will be furiously typing away on discussion boards across the internet.

Likely was a bad batch of parts, it can happen to anyone. Whether or not Glock can admit that though, will be fun to watch.
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Old May 15, 2013, 10:19 AM   #7
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Whether or not Glock can admit that though, will be fun to watch.
Too late...they're already saying it's the ammo. Yeah, ok guys...Because Speer Gold Dots have thick stainless steel primers right?


Just hope they get it fixed. I trust Robert a lot. If he says that, it's true. Just hope it's an isolated incident and has to do with that particular batch of firing pins.
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Old May 15, 2013, 10:23 AM   #8
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Was the switch to MIM a Gen 4 change?
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Old May 15, 2013, 10:25 AM   #9
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^ Yes. I believe so, I could be wrong. I think the extractors and possibly firing pins were changed to MIM.
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Old May 15, 2013, 10:58 AM   #10
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It is my understanding that Glock has been using MIM for the locking block, slide lock, extractor, extractor plunger, and firing pin safety plunger for quite awhile.

If the striker is a MIM part, it has to be a relatively recent change since the part has been made of tool steel stock (I must have 50 of them in old 'upgrade' kits that never got used) for as long as I can recall.

There is some discussion here (post #9) offers a possible way to discern between the two types of manufacture being used-

http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=13&t=124508

Guess I'll be hanging onto those old tool steel strikers for a bit.
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Old May 15, 2013, 11:14 AM   #11
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More fuel for Glock and MIM haters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine View Post
Too late...they're already saying it's the ammo. Yeah, ok guys...Because Speer Gold Dots have thick stainless steel primers right?


Just hope they get it fixed. I trust Robert a lot. If he says that, it's true. Just hope it's an isolated incident and has to do with that particular batch of firing pins.
Lol, my thoughts exactly, if their firing pin can't handle Gold Dot, it's not a good firing pin.
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Old May 15, 2013, 11:24 AM   #12
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So, Glock owners should have spare parts on hand, like 1911 folks?
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Old May 15, 2013, 11:28 AM   #13
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Out of all the parts in any pistol, or rifle for that matter, the last part that should be made MIM is a firing pin or striker. Talk about cheaping out.

Quote:
So, Glock owners should have spare parts on hand, like 1911 folks?
It doesn't matter what gun you have, if it gets used alot or you depend on it for self defense you should have spare parts for it.
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Old May 15, 2013, 11:37 AM   #14
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Not all MIM parts are created equal. You cant just lump all MIM parts together. The MIM process can vary a lot in manufacturing
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Old May 16, 2013, 12:43 PM   #15
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It could well be that the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office order was all of the same production run - and that there was a particular problem that occurred at that timeto cause the issue - so what might go unnoticed in a run that was shipped far and wide would be much more noticeable in a run that mostly went to a single customer order.
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Old May 16, 2013, 12:47 PM   #16
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Not all MIM parts are created equal. You cant just lump all MIM parts together. The MIM process can vary a lot in manufacturing.
Yup. And don't forget that not only does the process vary, but there are quite a number of different powdered steel alloys that can be used. In the knifemaking world, blades manufactured from powdered steels (most of which are manufactured by Hitachi) are considered top of the line for hardness and edge retention (though not always rated so highly for toughness).
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Old May 17, 2013, 03:35 AM   #17
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I am just tagging this thread to see how it goes. I've never had a issue with a old pre gen4 glock. shame it doesn't go into detail about what gen/model etc.
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Old May 17, 2013, 10:06 AM   #18
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I'm not a fan of MIM parts in a self defense firearm. The process can produce parts that fail. They are molding metal powder into shapes to save on machining costs. It would be nice to know which companies use MIM parts and which parts.
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Old May 17, 2013, 10:37 AM   #19
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Out of all the parts in any pistol, or rifle for that matter, the last part that should be made MIM is a firing pin or striker. Talk about cheaping out.
I had a revolver which ate up 2 firing pins. The first time, I had it repaired by the factory. The second time, I bought an after market part made of hardened stainless. I figured a stock part would just keep breaking. I can only assume the part was MIM, but don't know for sure. I fully agree with the above statement. What is next? MIM springs?
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Old May 17, 2013, 12:48 PM   #20
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It would be nice to hear from a metallurgist, not a police sergeant, about the problems with MIM (or any other metal processing technique). Corrosion? Wear? Breakage? The pictured firing pin could have been subject to any or all of the above.

Jim
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Old May 17, 2013, 01:25 PM   #21
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Is there any test, or telltale signs to distinguish an MIM part from a milled part?

I'd prefer not to have MIM parts in my guns - but, manufacturers are careful these days not to tell you what you are actually buying.
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Old May 17, 2013, 01:54 PM   #22
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Here’s a pic of my firing pin. It’s a 19C pistol bought new by me on 10-07-99 serial number DEP0xxUS. Based on the link http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=13&t=124508 by 481 it appears to be non MIM.

The above firing pin is from the same pistol I posted in the following thread/page.

Thinking about a G19
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=524216&page=3

Just something to note. The above firing pin feels (fingers) and appears like the sear and disconnector of my Colt Gold Cup series 70 (collet bushing) from the 80’s.
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File Type: jpg GlockFiringPinG19,DEP.jpg (199.5 KB, 65 views)
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Old May 17, 2013, 07:35 PM   #23
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THAT is a Glock firing pin? I can see exactly why they cast that instead of forging/milling it. What a handful that must have been to make.
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Old May 17, 2013, 08:21 PM   #24
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Until I see more evidence that this is rampant I would assume that it's not.

MY brother in law works for a heat treating place and has been there for almost 40 years. One mistake when treating metal can have bad effects.

I am not sure the pins are treated at all after they are made, but the metal still may have been before the MIM process and that could cause problems.

Not to mention that many metals have to be properly forged or purified by other means and contaminants or lack of purity can slip through QC and cause a bad batch as well.

I am glad this thread came up for future reference as well, because it wont be the first case of bad batches of parts (if that is the case) and won't be the last.

One thing I will note is in reference to the pin being to soft, and not hard enough. Usually soft metal deforms and hard metal chips or fractures when failing.
If the metal was to soft as the one guy mentioned, it would have deformed the head before chipping off or fracturing.

The other good point made was that a good steel firing pin should hold up to any name brand ammo (mentioned in the video). Older Glocks fire the same ammo with no issues.

IMO Bad batch of Firing Pins.
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Old May 17, 2013, 09:22 PM   #25
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Don't know what might be the cause of the problem, but it's strange that the problem -- whatever it is -- is limited to one police department. If it were something like MIM parts, you'd think all of the other Glock users would be experiencing some problems of a similar nature.

Police departments typically don't shoot their weapons nearly as often as do civilian shooters, and if it were a MIM issue, I think it would have raised it's ugly head somewhere else, A LOT!

Sounds more like a bad lot of parts that may have affected only a relatively small number of guns.
Likewise...chances are high that the officers failed to fully clean the weapons. I'll be honest...I have not disassembled the slide since I purchased my Glock.

I just forced myself to go to buy the tool needed since I am now thinking about it.
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