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Old May 14, 2013, 10:31 PM   #1
dakota.potts
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CZ 75 may be more gun than I bargained for

So I finally got the much talked about CZ 75. I waited a long time and was very excited.

My dad brought it home and the first thing he said is "I think you're making a mistake."

We both love the gun, the weigh it feels, the quality of the build, the look, everything about it. I am very happy, in theory, with the choice I made.

Unfortunately, it is my first gun and I am finding it very hard to manipulate. I've used a Sig Sauer P238 and P250 and both were easier to use.

The absolute biggest problem I have is the slide. I have an incredibly hard time racking the slide. Most notably, there is very little room to grab, but the actual pull on the slide is very hard as well. When I cock it into single action mode I can work the slide, and after much repetition, I'm finally able to move the slide from de-cock but haven't worked it back fully yet. Part of it is mental (I had a very hard time even with the slide on the very easy P238 until I gained confidence) but I am having a very hard time with basic function such as the slide and the slide release.

My hands are also very small and slender so I wonder if this doesn't contribute.

I really want to love this gun but I am having problems right now. My parents don't want me firing it until I can show some efficiency with the basic operation (which I agree with) and the thought has crossed my mind to move on for now. It's in new condition, in the box, never fired other than a couple snap caps, and there's a relative rarity of them right now. There was a P-07 Duty that I was able to handle more easily if it came to it. But I want to give it at least a week and see if I'm making significant ground.

I'm really not comfortable firing a gun where I don't have control over the operation so any advice how to do so would be really appreciated.

P.S. Can somebody describe or show sources on how to decock from half-cock? For some reason I never read in my research that the decocker only goes to half-cock so I need to learn the rest of the way

Really want to love this gun, so please help me!

Attached is a picture of me holding the gun to get a feel for my relative hand size. The gun was checked clear prior to the photo and pointed to the safest corner of my room where there is nothing I want to destroy.
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Old May 14, 2013, 10:52 PM   #2
MLeake
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Check out corneredcat.com and the techniques Pax recommends for racking slides.

I usually teach the punch method (punch the grip forward, instead of trying to pull the slide back).

With the limited grasping surface of CZ slides, I usually use and recommend overhand instead of slingshot grasp.
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Old May 14, 2013, 11:10 PM   #3
marine6680
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I have smallish hands, and I have no issues.

Firing the gun will loosen it up a good bit BTW.

My fiance had trouble with hers when new. She finds it a little stiff still, but she can rack the slide pretty well now.


Another thing... man handle that thing, don't treat it special or like its fragile... don't be afraid of it, or "getting hurt" or hurting it... put all your strength into it... sling that slide back as quick as you can and let it go and slam forward on its on. (insert dumb masochist joke here )

Did I get the point across? You are not going to hurt the gun, and as long as you are conscious of where you grab, it is very unlikely you will hurt yourself either.

I found this to be the fiance's biggest problem, she was afraid to really put any "oomf" into manipulating the gun.

Firing the gun will put more stress on the parts than you ever will be.

Also check out http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php for CZ specific/focused info.

Last edited by marine6680; May 14, 2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old May 14, 2013, 11:18 PM   #4
dakota.potts
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Thanks guys! I looked up that article and it did help a lot with things like hand placement. I ran a couple practices tonight. Check clear, load two magazines with snap caps, load magazine one, rack from uncocked, fire, rack, fire, rack, reload, slide lever, fire, rack, fire, rack, check clear, decock.

Although I wasn't fluid by any means I was able to do all of the above and when my technique is good do it without too much thinking. I recall one time in particular I was really struggling with the slide, changed my angle and pushed just a bit with my right hand, and racked it before I knew I had done it.

Now that I have a little more psychological control I feel better. I wasn't afraid of hurting the gun but I was afraid of "railroading" or getting my fingers caught in the port. I'm a musician so my fingers are important to me. Once I found a good spot clear of these dangers and let some of the worry go I got better.
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Old May 14, 2013, 11:27 PM   #5
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I never found any sharp areas that would cause issues, not even the joint between the slide and frame, though getting a finger stuck in the ejection port would hurt if you managed it...

Thing is... you are supposed to pull the slide back all the way and then let it go. Maybe even let your hand keep moving backward after you let go. (follow through) Its virtually impossible to smash a finger if you do this.

Continuing to hold/touch the slide as it moves forward is called "riding the slide" and is poor technique.

And remember to check out the site I linked above.
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Old May 14, 2013, 11:36 PM   #6
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Can somebody describe or show sources on how to decock from half-cock? For some reason I never read in my research that the decocker only goes to half-cock so I need to learn the rest of the way.
I don't think there's any problem with leaving this particular gun on half-cock. The manual seems imply that it's actually intended to be left that way and states clearly that it's safe to leave the gun in that condition.
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Old May 14, 2013, 11:45 PM   #7
dakota.potts
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I'm pretty confident about that now, marine, but I was very worried about it at first. Once I gained control and realized that probably wasn't going to happen if I was cognizant of my placement, I did much better.

I had a feeling that some of it may be in my head. I'm still not as comfortable on it as other systems but there is some hope
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Old May 15, 2013, 12:18 AM   #8
dakota.potts
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JohnKSa, reading the manual now. Are you saying that there is never a reason to decock it in the normal course of operation and storage? If so that is very interesting
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Old May 15, 2013, 12:20 AM   #9
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He is saying the half-cock is the normal DA carry mode.
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Old May 15, 2013, 12:33 AM   #10
dakota.potts
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So I'm presuming the only time I would want to fully de-cock is when there are no rounds in it. Sorry, I'm a bit dense sometimes but prefer to over think rather than under think. Thanks for the help guys.
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Old May 15, 2013, 02:04 AM   #11
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CZ 75 may be more gun than I bargained for

Another point: have you cleaned and lubed your new firearm? The packing lube on a lot of firearms are not a lube at all. Just a rust prevention gunk. That may also smooth some of the resistance away.

As for the decocking, unlike a Sig, the decocker only takes it to half cocked. If you are not comfortable storing it this way, drop the mag, clear the chamber, safety check, aim in a safe direction and pull the trigger. Reinsert mag for storage.
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Old May 15, 2013, 02:14 AM   #12
JimmyR
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From another CZ-75BD owner

The decocker only takes the weapon to the half-cock. If you want to lower the hammer all the way down, you would lower it the same as any other- hold the hammer, pull the trigger, and gently lower the hammer. Personally, I also hold down the decocker lever, to provide an extra level of safety.
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Old May 15, 2013, 06:27 AM   #13
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Get thee to the range and run and run a couple hundred rounds through... It'll all be MUCH smoother then...
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Old May 15, 2013, 07:32 AM   #14
CurlyQ.Howard
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My wife has trouble racking the slide on our CZ (she has fibromyalgia), so I told her to hook the rear sight on her shoe heal (standing on one foot, cross the other leg to make a figure 4 - then hook the rear sight on the heel of that foot and rack the slide). It works for her, and now we are working on her coordination for racking the slide with her hands - she has sufficient strength, but she needs to coordinate her movements. Also, as others have said, you must clean it and then shoot it to loosen it up. Believe me, by the time you've shot it 300 - 500 rounds worth, it will work.
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Old May 15, 2013, 07:43 AM   #15
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Looking at the picture you provided, I don't think you should want to fully lower the hammer - that lengthens the trigger pull, and makes it slightly heavier, and the picture makes it appear that the trigger reach is already in the longer range for your finger.

The pistol is designed to run from the half-cock, so it is safe to carry it that way.

Going back to slide manipulation, I said I prefer the punch method. This is because it allows you to use your strong arm, pectoral, and core muscles. (Edit: Think good martial art form; the punch originates from the ground, through your feet, and involves the hips - a lot of force is potentially available). marine6680 said to pull back hard on the slide - that requires more hand strength, and effectively isolates to a weak side arm curl. It works well for some.

What you might try is to combine the two. The way I taught my 70 year old mother, who has mildly arthritic hands, was to punch the grip forward with her right hand, while simultaneously pulling back and releasing the slide with her left. To ensure a clean release, and that she would not ride the slide forward, I taught her to slap her right upper pec and shoulder with her left hand when she releases.

Note: Keep your trigger finger indexed on the frame, well outside the trigger guard, when you manipulate the slide.

Note: Keep the muzzle downrange (it is not uncommon to see people get sideways when fighting with a heavy spring).

Note: Especially if using an overhand grasp, ensure you do not put your weak arm's elbow in front of the muzzle.

Practice with snap caps is recommended.

Hands on training with an instructor is never a bad idea.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:21 AM   #16
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I don't have a huge problem with the CZ slides. But I don't like them for that reason..Imagine racking that slide with some adrenaline running through you to even so much as notice a malfunction. Makes me shudder. Great shooters though. It boils down to training on it. I know a lot of people who love their CZ75's and practice with them often. So you can eventually become efficient with it...just manipulate it a lot. Empty, snap caps, don't think it's hard. Think.. "I have to get used to it, so let me practice". Laws of attraction are so much easier towards an inanimate object. If you keep giving up already and thinking it's so hard, that's how it'll remain.

Work on it. It was introduced to you negatively by pops (my old man is the same way) and it stuck. Don't worry. Keep on practicing.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:30 AM   #17
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if you reduce the strength of the hammer spring, it will not only make racking the slide from a fully decocked position much easier, it will also lighten your trigger a bit. these guns rack fairly easily once the hammer is back. you just need to be careful not to lighten it too much. some ammo won't fire if you reduce the hammer spring weight significantly. i can't remember what weights i settled on for my springs, but the guys at the cz forum sent me in the right direction for recoil and hammer spring weight. i've never had any problems with reliability and the trigger is very smooth now.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:34 AM   #18
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^^^ When are you gonna sell me that 9mm Spartan?


I think the OP should just break that puppy in and call it a day to be honest. Everything is tight right now because it just left the factory.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:39 AM   #19
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Cock the hammer first, then rack the slide. Problem solved. Others have suggested the proper method (Cornered Cat). Also as others have said, CZ put overly heavy mainspings (hammer springs) in some of their pistols. You can reduce the weight of the mainspring, and still have 100% reliability. However, I think cocking the hammer first will solve your problems.

Do NOT give up on this gun. It is one of the best all around pistols out there.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:39 AM   #20
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that is true. the cz's do start out a little tight. and as far as trading in for the p-07, trust me, you don't want to do that. i'd swear the p-07 was made by the janitor at cz. compared to their other guns, it's a piece of crap. it's the only cz i've ever had that i didn't like, and other than the 83, it's the only one i've sold. the only people i suggest the p-07 to are people on a very tight budget who are looking at a s&w sigma or sd, and i can't talk them into a ruger sr9. i can't believe i'm saying this, but i'd even take a glock 19 over the p-07

you're never getting my spartan constantine. that thing is a tack driver. not even my $1800 custom builds pull off that kind of accuracy. my 75b and sp-01 shadow custom will hang with it, but that's it.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:47 AM   #21
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and as far as trading in for the p-07, trust me, you don't want to do that. i'd swear the p-07 was made by the janitor at cz. compared to their other guns, it's a piece of crap.
+1 on that. That's like trading a SIG P226 for a SP2022 or whatever that thing is. Just don't do it. Or a Ford Mustang GT for a Ford Focus. (I own a 226 and GT)

Quote:
and other than the 83, it's the only one i've sold.
I would have kept the 83 if I had it. I had the 82...that round was a pain to find and I was over the online only search for ammo. I want an 83 -___-

Quote:
i can't believe i'm saying this, but i'd even take a glock 19 over the p-07
I can't believe you're saying that either. I'm going to hold that against you forever now. lol seriously, that must have taken you a while to type that. My Glock 19 is at 4:00 right now and a happy camper. Uncle Dan has love for him over another.


Quote:
you're never getting my spartan constantine.

Fine.
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Old May 15, 2013, 08:53 AM   #22
Walt Sherrill
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Regarding the half-cock position -- I assume, in this, that you have a 75B, and not one of the decocker models. (Ignore the "cocked and locked" notes, below, if yours has a decocker.)

As others have said, there's no compelling reason to decock to the fully hammer down position if the weapon is staying in your control, you're putting it away loaded, or you're not cleaning it, etc.

CZ decocker models lower the hammer to the half-cock position. The hammer and sear of the safety (i.e., non-decocker) models vs. decocker models are identical, except that the non-decocker models have two hammer hooks, while the decocker models have only one -- one hook being removed to make space for the decocker mechanism. If it's "safe" on the half-cock notch with the decocker models, its arguably MORE SAFE with the non-decocker models.

Most importantly, there is a firing pin block, which won't allow the firing pin to move unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. An external blow heavy enough to break the hammer/sear interface would also have to break the firing pin mechanism. When that particular train hits you, you're not going to be worrying about a negligent or accidental discharge. And, if you're concerned about an accident, keep you finger off the trigger: that's a good rule with any gun.

If you feel you MUST decock to the full hammer down position, there are several ways to do, all using both hands (at least for a novice). Here are three, but I'm sure others can provide other ways that may work better for you. In all of these examples, the gun should be pointed down, in a safe direction, away from people, etc. The first two assume you want to leave the weapon loaded with a round chambered.

1) put one finger of the weak hand (the one not holding the gun) in the slot at the rear of the slide, where the hammer fits.

Using the other hand (holding the gun), put your thumb on the hammer (as though you've just cocked it), then pull the trigger slowly, while keeping your thumb on the hammer. Let the hammer slowly move forward under control of your thumb until it hits the finger of the other hand.

With your finger OFF the trigger (letting the trigger return to the forward position), but hammer still under the control of your thumb, slowly pull your finger out from under the hammer, and let the hammer drop fully down.

2) Hold the gun in your shooting hand, use your other hand to grasp the trigger with thumb and forefinger (or any way you feel gives you control of it), and pull the trigger.

Lower the hammer slowly with the other hand. As the hammer drops nearly to the bottom, release the trigger, and then let the hammer continue on down.

3) Unload the gun. Rack the slide to remove a chambered round. Examine the open slide/chamber to be sure it is empty. Point the gun down, in a safe direction, and pull the trigger.

You've just "dry fired" your weapon, and it's a good practice technique. Dry firing was an issue with older CZs, as it could damage the firing pin block retention roll pin; they've since changed the design slightly, with a diferent type of pin that isn't damaged by repeated blows. Even with the older guns, doing it infrequently, was not a problem. Doing it with the newer models is fine.

Note: if you want to practice pulling the trigger, just get a thick rubber washer or bushing (o-ring) from a hardware store, and stick it in the slot at the rear of the slide. Or get what is called a SNAP CAP, which is a fake round that absorbs the force of the firing pin strike. If you use an O-ring, the hammer will hit THAT instead of the firing pin. If you use a snap cap, everything is the same as if you had actually fired the gun, as far as the gun is concerned, and all is well.

Practicing using the trigger a LOT will smooth up the internal parts and slowly improve the trigger feel. You don't have to spend $hundreds on ammo to improve the trigger or your proficiency with it.
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Old May 15, 2013, 12:28 PM   #23
chris in va
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if you reduce the strength of the hammer spring, it will not only make racking the slide from a fully decocked position much easier, it will also lighten your trigger a bit. these guns rack fairly easily once the hammer is back
Exactly. A 14# hammer spring from Wolff does wonders for the overly stiff trigger pull on the 75. It's a fairly easy procedure if you know someone that can do basic parts swaps on a handgun. It's usually the first thing I do when buying a CZ.
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Old May 15, 2013, 02:54 PM   #24
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One of the best demonstrations of racking the slide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbayNc6D9HY

If your trigger finger is too short for the gun, there's an after market trigger, without the curve in it, that can help.
It's more straight up and down.
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Old May 15, 2013, 03:12 PM   #25
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As far as getting a different hammer/main spring... I went with a #16 to ensure ignition should I get a 22lr conversion.

A #15 works, and I was going to go with that, but they were all out. Someone else mentioned a#14, that should work good too.
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