The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 14, 2013, 06:40 PM   #1
plouffedaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,239
IWI Tavor SAR Bullpup Rifle Review








After a long wait, the IWI Tavor has finally ended up on American gun store shelves. I was lucky enough to get one of the first ones a couple months ago and have been putting it through its' paces since. Here's what I've found...

Pros:
-Reliable. 1 malfunction out of roughly 1000 rounds and it may very well have been a bad round (more info in the video below).
-26'' OAL yet still has a 16.5'' barrel. Above you can see it next to my 10.5'' SBR'd AR.
-1/2 x 28 thread pattern so AR muzzle devices and suppressors will work just fine on the rifle.
-Comes with 2 QD attachment points built into the rifle.
-Full 1913 top rail for adding whatever optic you choose.
-Built in flip up iron sights. The front sight has a tritium insert for low light visibility.
-Easy to field strip for maintenance.
-Very easy to swap controls for left hand use. Ejection pattern can also be swapped with a left hand bolt (LH rifles will be coming from the factory soon).
-Caliber conversions for both 5.45x39 and 9mm will be released in the coming months.
-Balances very well as most of the weight is in the rear of the rifle.
-Bolt locks open on the last round.
-CHF chrome lined 1 in 7 5.56 chambered barrel.
-Accepts standard capacity AR mags (some Gen2 PMags may not drop free)
-Very easy mag change procedure.


Cons:
-The recoil spring is pinned in to the bolt carrier assembly so I'm not sure how that would be swapped when the round count gets high enough to justify it (US version only as I understand it).
-Trigger. It has some 'linkage' feel to it like most bullpups do. That said, the break is crisp at just over 9 pounds.
-Cost. These things are tough to find and they're going for over $3k on gunbroker and many small gun shops (and people are paying it!).
-Mounting a light on the rail system is awkward unless you're using a pressure switch.
-Not a lot of Tavor specific accessories available currently. We're pretty much limited to adapting/using accessories designed for use on an AR for this rifle so the side/top rail space can get full really quickly.
-Fixed LOP stock. That said, it is comfortable for me in most positions (6'0'' for reference)
-Many folks like to run their rifles with their hand far out toward the muzzle for better control---for them the compactness of the rifle may hinder their weapons handling/control capabilities.


All in all the Tavor has a some of the downsides inherent to the platform but less than probably any bullpup I've seen/owned/handled to date. They're a little on the pricy side but if you're looking for a gun that will be used in a CQB role, this is one that I'd take a hard look at. I really like it thus far and the more time I have behind it the more I like it (I think much of that is due to gaining familiarity with the controls and confidence in manipulating the weapon).

If I could go back in time I'd absolutely buy this rifle again so I guess that's really the ultimate complement.

Here's a video with some shooting, a quick accuracy 'test' (wind and Wolf ammo...), a demonstration of how to manipulate the controls of the rifle, a quick disassembly/assembly, and a discussion of the pros/cons of the rifle.


Tavor HD Video Review Link
__________________
Mrgunsngear's Youtube Channel
Certified Glock Armorer
plouffedaddy is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 10:30 AM   #2
loose_holster_dan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 5, 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,416
jealous.
i love bullpups.
__________________
Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm
Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK
Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7
"A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."
loose_holster_dan is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 10:53 AM   #3
Patriot86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
I agree I want one but not going to be paying 3K for one. Maybe I will pick one up gently used in a few months, but if I am spending 3K on a rifle its going to be a SCAR or a H&K 416 variant.
__________________
"....The swords of others will set you your limits".
Patriot86 is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 11:34 AM   #4
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
Don't think I'll be ever able to own one in my state, but I think bullpups are the best compromise for people such as myself who prefer to use rifles instead of handguns or shotguns for HD.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 12:49 PM   #5
Patriot86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
Does California have an overall length requirment? I don't quite know the inns and outs of your State AWB. You could perm attach the flash hider. I would assume it takes a 10 round magazine and it doesn't technically have a pistol grip.
__________________
"....The swords of others will set you your limits".
Patriot86 is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 03:22 PM   #6
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
Quote:
Does California have an overall length requirment? I don't quite know the inns and outs of your State AWB. You could perm attach the flash hider. I would assume it takes a 10 round magazine and it doesn't technically have a pistol grip.
The pistol grip would be a REALLY hard sale. But even if we could pull it off, it is technically an "Assault Weapon" if the OAL is <30 inches.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 05:04 PM   #7
Ajtozzi
Member
 
Join Date: September 14, 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 87
IWI Tavor SAR Bullpup Rifle Review

We sold about a half dozen of them for $2199. I shot the owners - it's really cool but the trigger is very mechanical feeling and kind of heavy.
Ajtozzi is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 07:01 PM   #8
plouffedaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,239
Quote:
I agree I want one but not going to be paying 3K for one. Maybe I will pick one up gently used in a few months, but if I am spending 3K on a rifle its going to be a SCAR or a H&K 416 variant.
It would be a tough pill to swallow. Crazy thing is I think once the 9mm kits hit the market (supposedly a couple months) and the 5.45 kits arrive (supposedly by the end of 2013) the popularity of these may actually go up so the price will remain relatively high.

I hope I'm wrong, but....
__________________
Mrgunsngear's Youtube Channel
Certified Glock Armorer
plouffedaddy is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 08:00 PM   #9
Justice06RR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2010
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,262
Sweet rifle. But $3k pricetag


Congrats.
Justice06RR is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 08:08 PM   #10
5.56RifleGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,135
When stuff settles down they wont be 3k. I got mine for msrp.
__________________
Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus
5.56RifleGuy is offline  
Old May 16, 2013, 09:46 PM   #11
Patriot86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
I want one bad but I am still going to wait until the "New" craze wears off and pick up a gently used one for hopefully $1500 or 1600. It will happen, might take a year or two but it will.
__________________
"....The swords of others will set you your limits".
Patriot86 is offline  
Old May 17, 2013, 12:15 PM   #12
DasGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2011
Posts: 318
I want one.
DasGuy is offline  
Old May 17, 2013, 08:05 PM   #13
ThatBeardedGuy
Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2013
Posts: 84
I keep hearing nothing but good things about this rifle. Definitely picking one up.
ThatBeardedGuy is offline  
Old May 17, 2013, 08:17 PM   #14
ThatBeardedGuy
Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2013
Posts: 84
I do have a question though. Coming from the AR, I wanted to ask if you figured out a good system for reloading the bullpup. Did you need to unsocket the rifle from your shoulder and cant it to reload?
ThatBeardedGuy is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 08:01 AM   #15
plouffedaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,239
Quote:
I do have a question though. Coming from the AR, I wanted to ask if you figured out a good system for reloading the bullpup. Did you need to unsocket the rifle from your shoulder and cant it to reload?
I don't. In fact, I think that with practice reloads on the Tavor can certainly be faster than the AR. If you watch the video (link above) you'll see me change mags several times.
__________________
Mrgunsngear's Youtube Channel
Certified Glock Armorer
plouffedaddy is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 11:23 AM   #16
5.56RifleGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,135
The placement of the bolt and mag release helps a lot too.
__________________
Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus
5.56RifleGuy is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 07:27 PM   #17
ThatBeardedGuy
Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2013
Posts: 84
Right, I finally loaded up the video and saw your process for reloading. Loading videos in Afghanistan is a several-hour exercise sometimes. Thanks for the reply.
ThatBeardedGuy is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 07:49 PM   #18
ThatBeardedGuy
Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2013
Posts: 84
At any rate, watching you run the rifle definitely assures me that it'll be well-worth the price. A coworker of mine bought one but hasn't gotten to shoot it yet, and we've got another one who's looking at it to fill the CQB role his SCAR 17S is a little long for.
ThatBeardedGuy is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 09:29 PM   #19
plouffedaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,239
Quote:
At any rate, watching you run the rifle definitely assures me that it'll be well-worth the price. A coworker of mine bought one but hasn't gotten to shoot it yet, and we've got another one who's looking at it to fill the CQB role his SCAR 17S is a little long for.
It would certainly be much better in CQB scenarios than a 17S; even with the NFA barrels...
__________________
Mrgunsngear's Youtube Channel
Certified Glock Armorer
plouffedaddy is offline  
Old May 18, 2013, 10:14 PM   #20
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 16,847
At $3k I'll pass.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 07:13 AM   #21
ThatBeardedGuy
Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2013
Posts: 84
Quote:
It would certainly be much better in CQB scenarios than a 17S; even with the NFA barrels...
That seems to be his viewpoint. He enjoys the 17S, but it's a lot of gun for pieing a corner. The Tavor SAR manages to work a mid-length barrel into a something shorter even than your average "carbine".

I look forward to picking mine up when I get home, and I'm in a place where I can afford the somewhat inflated price to get one.

That said, I think the prices will stay level. Through all of this mess, prices on bullpup rifles have stayed more constant and reasonable than they have on traditional designs like the AR or the SCAR. I think it's partly that a lot of American shooters are going to look at this rifle like it's a plastic toy, and putting the magazine and receiver group behind the trigger is something very few American gun companies experiment with (the Kel-Tec RFB comes to mind as an example).

However, I think a lot of Americans also understand that Israel can't afford to field a weapon system that sucks. The Israelis know that anything they put into military supply chains is going to be used pretty much immediately, and the Tavor is combat-proven in a country that's always in combat.
__________________
TXARNG: 2007 - Present

"We're gonna turn left!!" - NASCAR, in a nutshell.
ThatBeardedGuy is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 08:27 AM   #22
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajtozzi
We sold about a half dozen of them for $2199. I shot the owners - it's really cool but the trigger is very mechanical feeling and kind of heavy.
Dude! If shooting customers is SOP in your store, I am SOOOO not shopping there.

Seriously, though, I'm not a huge fan of bullpups, that may well be related to my never having shot one.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 09:25 AM   #23
loose_holster_dan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 5, 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 2,416
Quote:
Seriously, though, I'm not a huge fan of bullpups, that may well be related to my never having shot one.
you don't have to shoot it to realize you'll love it. just shoulder it and swing it around (unloaded hopefully). it just feels so right. unfortunately, shooting it does take some of the perfection away, since most have a 9lb trigger. that can be fixed on some bullpups tho. my msar gets right around 5lbs with the htm hybrid trigger from rat worx installed.

btw - how do you get that formatting for your quoted text?
__________________
Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm
Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK
Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7
"A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."

Last edited by loose_holster_dan; May 19, 2013 at 09:31 AM.
loose_holster_dan is offline  
Old May 19, 2013, 09:47 AM   #24
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,084
TBH, I'm not even sure I've ever seen anything in a bullpup configuration around here. If I see one at a gun show, I'll take a minute to handle it.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old May 29, 2013, 09:15 PM   #25
RangerHAAF
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2007
Location: Decatur, GA
Posts: 252
What about MOA at 100 yards? Was that mentioned?
__________________
A Colt Python's trigger pull is as smooth, beautiful and artistic as a Sidewinder sliding on the desert floor. It is concepts like this that the anti-gunners can never comprehend and why we fight so hard to keep them.
NRA Benefactor Life member
RangerHAAF is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12188 seconds with 7 queries