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Old May 13, 2013, 12:01 PM   #1
Alabama Shooter
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Reacting to Mass Crowd Shooting

This video shows the mass crowd shooting in NOLA this weekend where 19 were injured. How would you have reacted?

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews...66819#51866819

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ay-parade?lite
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Old May 13, 2013, 12:24 PM   #2
Constantine
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Very close to him? Dropped straight down on my back and fired at him.

Far away? Run for cover.


Why fall on my back? Bullets that miss will go straight up in the air as opposed to innocent bystanders. Then again, if I was really close. Most likely just hit the ground for cover, run, and watch my 6.


Then again, while in retreat mode. If I find good cover check if I have a shot. If not, continue to retreat.
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Old May 13, 2013, 12:39 PM   #3
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If I heard shots in a crowded environment and my first inclination would be to:

1. drop to the ground on my back,
2. determine the source of the gunfire,
3. do a low-crawl to a wall just in case a stampede starts,

If I am in the immediate area of the gunfire and I'm in fear for my life

1. drop to the ground on my back,
2. pull out my gun, without elevating my arm and visually identify the shooter, not just someone holding a gun,

3. fire. With an upward trajectory if I miss I'm less likely to hurt someone.
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Old May 13, 2013, 12:42 PM   #4
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1. Not be in New Orleans.
2. eat Tex Mex.
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Old May 13, 2013, 02:39 PM   #5
Frank Ettin
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These sorts of questions get discussed here often, most recently in this thread.

And the bottom line in every case is that there is no real answer. Everything depends on the circumstances -- exactly what is happening and how, what your situation is, what your skills are, etc.
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Old May 13, 2013, 03:45 PM   #6
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Drop down on your back?

If you drop on to your back in a crowd when a shooting starts you will likely be trampled to death!
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Old May 13, 2013, 04:04 PM   #7
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Unless confronted directly by a shooter, or seeing him about to shoot someone very close to me, I'll get the hell outta Dodge as quickly as possible. Run away, take secure cover or try to become invisible, but get out of the situation. Especially if law enforcement is arriving: that's a bad time to be seen with a gun in your hand.

In the New Orleans second line parade shooting it appears there were a minimum of two shooters. Something to think about before drawing on one of them.
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Old May 13, 2013, 04:17 PM   #8
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Reacting to Mass Crowd Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by WW2 View Post
If you drop on to your back in a crowd when a shooting starts you will likely be trampled to death!
What the poster above me said. It's not a perfect response for every situation. It's if directly engaged by or close to the shooter. Which had some serious mental issues to be shooting at a crowd of people randomly. -.-
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Old May 13, 2013, 04:17 PM   #9
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In that type of situation, running like the rest of the herd and turning at the first corner isn't a bad idea.
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Old May 13, 2013, 05:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Everything depends on the circumstances
Here the circumstances can be pretty clear if you are near by. I imagine your position is highly relevant though.

Looks to me like:
- Someone went to the shooter and ID's a target for him.
- Shooter engages the target from the rear with lots of collateral damage.
- Crowd disperses in well rounded circular pattern away from shooter with many people dropping either wounded or trying to be make themselves small.
- Person ID'ing target escapes in the confusion
- Shooter escapes without pursuit

Since we had no way of knowing beforehand that this was a likely gang/ drug hit it is pretty to make the wrong assumption of a terror attack or crazed mass shooter. If we assume that then when the shooter is standing by himself with his weapon clearly evident is the best time to engage him if possible.

He was standing by himself in front of a large masonry building. If you have a clear lane it does not get much better than that in an urban setting. This would be no easy feat if you are being trampled or wounded yourself.

I think you have to make the assumption these days that if someone opens up on a crowd they are likely not going to stop shooting until they are dead or run out of ammo. That may be the case here.
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Old May 13, 2013, 05:28 PM   #11
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I received reports of at least two people shooting and possibly a third.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/13...est=latestnews

Kind of changes the what would i do personally.

With more than one person shooting at each other, I am going for cover the best i can. I would have no clear evidence as to who was shooting for what reason.

Just see no reason here to take a chance..
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Old May 13, 2013, 07:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama Shooter
Quote:
Everything depends on the circumstances
Here the circumstances can be pretty clear if you are near by....
Actually, we don't. Your outline of what you perceive to be the circumstances still leaves so much out that might be material.

But possibly the only way to really come to understand how much details can affect what the appropriate response might be is to do some Force-on-Force training.
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Old May 13, 2013, 08:04 PM   #13
Alabama Shooter
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Quote:
Actually, we don't. Your outline of what you perceive to be the circumstances still leaves so much out that might be material.

But possibly the only way to really come to understand how much details can affect what the appropriate response might be is to do some Force-on-Force training.
Of course there are volumes unspoken. Even the final reports of the incident will be wrong in one regard or another. Scenario force on force training only applies for that scenario. I merely outlined one possible scenario based on the video.
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Old May 13, 2013, 08:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabama Shooter
...Scenario force on force training only applies for that scenario...
Not really. A major point of FoF training is learning developing situation assessment and decision making skills.
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Old May 13, 2013, 09:39 PM   #15
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Going down flat on my back or prone is about the last thing I would do unless I was also behind cover. Bullets hitting pavement don't bounce like a rubber ball, they straighten out and travel with the ground when striking pavement. If he aims short the rounds will still hit you very likely. This is taught by the FBI and countless police training's.
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Old May 13, 2013, 09:51 PM   #16
Deaf Smith
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Quote:
Reacting to Mass Crowd Shooting
"He who drops and rolls away, lives to fight another day.

And that is how I got away!"

Good advice from a TV show.

It may not work in every situation but usually when the shooting starts they shoot at standing people. Don't stand. Instead drop & roll away behind cover, and leave the area (unless you have the firepower to challenge them.)

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Old May 14, 2013, 01:21 AM   #17
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Another incident that wasn't publicized happened last fall in CA. A man at a mall parking lot pulled out a gun and started shooting up into the air. What if someone had intervened and shot the guy?

It turned out he was a despondent security guard, and he wasn't actually targeting anyone, just crying for help in a pretty stupid manner. But if a good Samaritan had shot the guy, especially in CA, guess who would probably have been in trouble.

I'd say, find cover, assess the situation and then act accordingly.

Similar crowed situation was the Gabby Gifford shooting. There was I think two CCW holders in the crowd but both decided it was unsafe to shoot the guy (I forgot his name) because of the surrounding crowd. I think one tackled him instead. Not sure.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; May 14, 2013 at 02:03 AM. Reason: delete tasteless humor
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Old May 14, 2013, 08:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Not really. A major point of FoF training is learning developing situation assessment and decision making skills.
Well duh, a lot training does that. How to react to a near ambush is quite different than how to react to a far ambush though. If you are trying to teach tactics, techniques and procedures for each you don't do one and hope the trainees pick it up through generalized development.
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Old May 14, 2013, 07:26 PM   #19
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In the Gifford's shooting...

... The nearest CCW was in a store near by the incident. When he heard the shooting he responded and by the time he got there unarmed people had tackled the shooter when he tried to reload. There were no CCW people in the immediate crowd.
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Old May 14, 2013, 08:54 PM   #20
treg
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Stay away from crowds.

React with "I woulda" and "he shoulda" when you see it in the news and on the boards.
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Old May 15, 2013, 12:33 PM   #21
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Even Police hit bystanders http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/...ased-from-icu/
If you look up the guy who was shot he was not found guilty. Also three bystanders were hit.

All the more reason not to get involved in a crowd shooting unless it becomes clear he is a nutcase shooting everyone in sight and maybe not even then.
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Old May 15, 2013, 12:47 PM   #22
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Shot 23 times? Wow...

Shot placement who?
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