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Old May 10, 2013, 01:14 PM   #1
nhbmaing
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Can I get in trouble for my CC gun printing?

I carry an M&P .40 full size. I can hide it well but every once in a while I feel like there might as well be a sign on my shirt with an arrow pointing to my hip saying "gun". I was wondering if I could get some sort of disturbing the peace violation if an anti sees it printing through my shirt and wants to make a big deal about it. I legally have a carry permit and I consciously keep the gun covered ( I heard about someone somewhere getting nailed for 'exposure'). Also could a police officer harass me for seeing the gun printing? Some cops (not all) are vehemently against armed citizenry.
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:21 PM   #2
Webleymkv
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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor a Pennsylvania resident, my advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

From what I can tell, Pennsylvania allows open carry so long as you have a license so I doubt that printing would be much of an issue. I suppose it is possible that if you came across the wrong cop you might get stuck with a catch-all charge like disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct, but unless you were doing something foolish I doubt they would stick.
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:22 PM   #3
The Verminator
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I wouldn't carry like that for those very reasons.

It IS comfortable, but.....as you say, you often print.

It's fine if you're a cop, but not the best for a civilian.

I carry in my pocket or on my belly.

Glock 26 conceals perfectly that way with the correct pants.

You really have to dress around the gun and make sure your carry is actually "concealed."
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:24 PM   #4
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I did, a little.
I was in a Home Depot here in Florida about 15 years ago and someone noticed the outline of my Kel Tec P11 in my back pocket. It was the pocket pistol to have back then.
When the wife and I exited the store a police officer was waiting for me who stopped me and asked if I had a pistol in my pocket?
I said "yes" and the officer said "don't reach for it, which pocket is it in?"
He removed the Kel Tec, unloaded it and asked for my permit and ID. Once satisfied he returned my credentials and unloaded pistol to me and told me not to reload until I left the parking lot.
Everything was very civil and considering I could have been charged with a crime for violating my permit I was very happy with the result.
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:28 PM   #5
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in fl incidental exposure is not a crime anymore
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselbeef
in fl incidental exposure is not a crime anymore
I didn't know this. Thanks.
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Old May 10, 2013, 02:15 PM   #7
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Yes, there was a pretty big case about that in Florida if I remember.
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Old May 10, 2013, 02:35 PM   #8
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Depends on where you live. As stated before if penn is an open carry state you shouldnt have a problem. BUT CHECK your local laws to be sure.
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Old May 10, 2013, 03:11 PM   #9
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nhbmaing

The danger that I see with giving away that you're carrying a gun is two fold.

1. Someone with malice sees you carrying all they have to do is call 911 and tell the dispatcher that you threatened them and the cop will have to take you in. Then it is the you against the city, on your dime.

2. A unarmed criminal with higher goals decides that he wants to move up stream, follows you out to the car whacks you on the head from behind, takes your gun and drives off before the stars clear from your head.

Only your wife should know that you're carrying.
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Old May 10, 2013, 03:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
The danger that I see with giving away that you're carrying a gun is two fold.

1. Someone with malice sees you carrying all they have to do is call 911 and tell the dispatcher that you threatened them and the cop will have to take you in. Then it is the you against the city, on your dime.

2. A unarmed criminal with higher goals decides that he wants to move up stream, follows you out to the car whacks you on the head from behind, takes your gun and drives off before the stars clear from your head.

Only your wife should know that you're carrying.
I don't think anyone thinks its a good idea to print or to allow even a brief flash of a gun (shirt rides up, for example). However, except for the deepest concealment, it's darned near impossible to guarantee you won't print or flash a glimpse of a firearm at some point in a lifetime.
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Old May 10, 2013, 04:06 PM   #11
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Yes you can definitely get in trouble for printing, whether or not it sticks in court is a matter of state laws which are probably very lacking on this subject.

As a general rule I figure if I ever got questioned for printing then I'd demand a positive ID on the description of the gun. The way I see it if the state does not have a law against printing then I have broken no law.... but again, that does not mean one would not get in trouble for it.
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Old May 10, 2013, 05:23 PM   #12
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I am not going to answer your question since I don't know the answer.

But one thing I want to point out. This is of course just my opinion:
I think a lot of people who carry, think that they are much more obvious than they really are. First of all, I don't think that 99.9% of people are aware of what is going on around them enough to notice something like you printing. They are self absorbed, the are looking at their cell phone..........Second, you might have SOMETHING under your shirt that a close inspection might notice, but that doesn't mean that it is a gun, or the person seeing it perceives it as a gun. It is probably just a cell phone or what ever. Even in today's world where concealed carry is common, I don't think most people really expect or even believe that other people are carrying a gun.

Keep in mind that when you are examining yourself in the mirror, you are totally focused on looking directly at where your gun is, with the goal of trying to see it. Typically in order to clearly see it, you are standing in a semi-ackward position such as holding your arm up and the air and thrusting out your hip (or whatever). When you are actually going about your daily business you have your arms at your sides.....................

I am not saying it isn't possible for someone to see that you are carrying. I am not saying that no one has ever been noticed. However, I personally don't think it is highly likely unless your are really doing something over the top.

FWIW: I carry a full sized pistol in an IWB holster. I don't wear any special clothing. Lately, T-Shirt and Shorts. If I move a certain way while looking in the mirror, I print; but not bad, not anything that obviously screams gun. No one has ever noticed. Twice, I had gone somewhere with a buddy of mine wo is also a gun guy who has a CCW and I asked him if he thought I was printing. Both times he replied that he had no idea I was carrying. Point being this is a guy that carries himself and is into guns and he didn't notice. I hardly think other people are going to notice.
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Old May 10, 2013, 05:29 PM   #13
RedBowTies88
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You're fine


since you have a CHL even the "first class" city of Philadelphia if fair game for you to open carry though. Although I would recommend carrying something more tailored to you're style of carry.

There should be legal ramifications if you gun prints.
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Old May 10, 2013, 09:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda94
Yes you can definitely get in trouble for printing, whether or not it sticks in court is a matter of state laws which are probably very lacking on this subject.
You're in Oregon, he's in Pennsylvania. As has already been pointed out, in Pennsylvania open carry WITHOUT ANY PERMIT is legal everywhere except in Philadelphia. The license is required only if you wish to conceal, and for carry in Philadelphia. Within Philadelphia, if you have a license both open and concealed carry are legal. However, the Philadelphia Police Department doesn't like it that open carry (or any carry) is legal, so if you open carry they WILL hassle you. But an accidental flash, or printing? No problem in PA.
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Old May 10, 2013, 09:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
There should be legal ramifications if you gun prints.
How so?
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Old May 11, 2013, 08:57 AM   #16
ClydeFrog
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Printing, OC, travel...

I'd speak to a criminal defense atty or legal affairs network near you.
They can explain the gun & knife laws to you. As for printing, most uniformed cops or security officers who may see your M&P pistol may ask you for your valid CC license. If its a honest mishap or the wind I doubt you'll have trouble. Make a real effort to conceal your firearm if it's the PA law.
I toted a full size Beretta 96D with a extended stainless barrel in a Aker shoulder holster when I lived in west PA in the late 1990s.

For laws & SOPs, see; www.nra.org www.knifelawsonline.com www.gunlawguide.com www.handgunlaw.us .

Be polite & don't dart around if you get pulled over. Calmly explained to the LE officer you have a valid carry license, then wait for the officer(s) to ask you if you are armed. Cops feel better if they decide what happens on traffic stops on their terms. You have civil rights too, if the officer or trooper is rude or unprofessional, file a formal complaint against them.

CF
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Old May 11, 2013, 12:46 PM   #17
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeFrog
As for printing, most uniformed cops or security officers who may see your M&P pistol may ask you for your valid CC license. If its a honest mishap or the wind I doubt you'll have trouble. Make a real effort to conceal your firearm if it's the PA law.
But, as previously noted, it is NOT the law in Pennsylvania that you must carry concealed. Open carry WITH NO PERMIT is legal everywhere in PA except Philadelphia. To carry in Philadelphia, one must have a permit but, with the permit, you may carry openly or concealed.

There have been legal cases in PA establishing that, where carry is legal, the mere fact of seeing someone wearing a gun does NOT give an officer a legal basis to stop the person and demand to see a carry permit. Some Philadelphia cops still try to harass people who carry, but they always lose in court (if it gets that far). The city recently paid one young man $25,000 and entered into a consent decree promising to retrain their officers after one such false arrest.

I would strongly suggest that the OP join the PAFOA (Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association) forum. There is a wealth of information about the legalities of open and concealed carry in PA on that site.
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Old May 11, 2013, 01:21 PM   #18
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It's a state/local issue....depends on your jurisdiction.

It is correct in FL that printing, and now even displaying your firearm in public- so long as it is not done in a threatening manner- is legal.

So if someone says "Can I see your gun" in a parking lot, it's perfectly legal to show it to them...
I have conducted several firearms sales (including handguns) FTF here in FL in the local Wal-Mart parking lot. Weapon out on the hood/truck, etc. being inspected. I do it in a less traveled area of the parking lot, but certainly visible if someone happens by.

That said, it's commonplace when you first start carrying to think that everyone's watching you...and can see your weapon. Not the case...
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Old May 12, 2013, 11:47 PM   #19
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nhbmaing: You live in PA (as noted in your information?)

How could you get in trouble for your concealed weapon "printing" when it is legal to OC WITHOUT a CHL in PA?

If you are worried about it, just OC. Then the only place you need that license is in Philly, OC or CC.

Oh yes, and the last guy that got roughed up by the Philly PD for his OC got $25K for his trouble. (yes, the city paid him, not the other way around)
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Old May 12, 2013, 11:56 PM   #20
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Koda94: Come on, you live in OR and believe that? You need to read ORS 166.250(3) and digest the fact that OR is also an unlicensed OC state except for those localities that have made use of ORS 166.173...and OC is just as legal anywhere with a CHL as CC is.

You cannot get in trouble for OC in OR anywhere if you have your CHL, You can get in legal trouble if you CC without a CHL, but not OC. Time break out the books and read OR law again...it's all in ORS 166 if you wish to look.
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:56 AM   #21
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If your in philly and OC with a LTCF You can expect to get "inconvenienced" as the chief put it. Most anywhere else the word is out and you won't get hassled. I OC all the time. Up here on the north end of the state. In all the years I have gotten flack twice and not from an LEO.
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Old May 13, 2013, 05:10 PM   #22
hunttheevil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Microgunner
I did, a little.
I was in a Home Depot here in Florida about 15 years ago and someone noticed the outline of my Kel Tec P11 in my back pocket. It was the pocket pistol to have back then.
When the wife and I exited the store a police officer was waiting for me who stopped me and asked if I had a pistol in my pocket?
I said "yes" and the officer said "don't reach for it, which pocket is it in?"
He removed the Kel Tec, unloaded it and asked for my permit and ID. Once satisfied he returned my credentials and unloaded pistol to me and told me not to reload until I left the parking lot.
Everything was very civil and considering I could have been charged with a crime for violating my permit I was very happy with the result.
I've somewhat printed many times in Florida with no LEO issues. I have gotten a few looks and a few conversations. No issues and we all went about our way. The definition of concealed in Florida is: concealed from the ordinary sight of another individual. Since your pocket pistol was concealed from ordinary sight, the LEO checked you out and let you go. There is no case law concerning printing in Florida, but the way things are going, someone will end up being a test case I imagine. My apologies for the thread jack.
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