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Old May 13, 2013, 04:44 PM   #76
Lucas McCain
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The point you are all arguing over is called Homographs. Homographs are words that are spell the same, pronounced the same, but have 2 different meanings. Proper usage in both the AMERICAN language and the ENGLISH language. That would be a whole different thread!
Repeating rifles came of age when the bolt action rifle was developed. they were designed with box style or tubular magazines. When the detachable magazine was developed and with the ease that it could be installed and removed they started to call it a clip, because of the fact it could snap into place.
Magazine also refers to a place that is specially built and dedicated to the use of storage for gun powder or other explosive.
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Old May 13, 2013, 04:53 PM   #77
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Whether it matters...

It really depends.

An aviation example:

The levers that make the plane go faster (assuming attitude remains constant) could be throttles, power levers, or thrust levers. The correct term will vary by aircraft and propulsion system. (Edit: Forgot, but one airplane I flew called the primary lever a Power and Condition Lever, or PCL.)

Believe it or not, some people use the terms interchangeably, even though they really aren't.

If two pilots are shooting the bull, it probably won't matter.

If a pilot uses incorrect terminology with an examiner at a Biennial Flight Review, or during an airline periodic proficiency check, it might matter a lot more.

It can also affect instructor credibility with a new student, if the instructor is lax in his own terminology. (Edit: I might take an instructor or RO/SO a bit less seriously if he told me to load the clip to my HK...)

The situation determines whether the terminology is "a problem." That said, it's simpler to train oneself to just use correct terminology to the maximum extent, so one doesn't really have to think about one's situation quite so much.

Last edited by MLeake; May 13, 2013 at 05:02 PM.
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Old May 13, 2013, 07:24 PM   #78
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Magazine also refers to a place that is specially built and dedicated to the use of storage for gun powder or other explosive.
As well as certain types of reading material............

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by BigD_in_FL; May 13, 2013 at 07:33 PM.
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Old May 13, 2013, 09:36 PM   #79
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And if we wanted to be STRICTLY correct, we'd go back to the old Persian makhzan, basically a storage warehouse for just about anything.
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Old May 13, 2013, 09:48 PM   #80
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Mike, there is a difference between a clip and a magazine; it is one of kind, not degree.

While words change over time, they normally do not change in a way that creates direct conflict with meaning, with the exception of slang (hot, cool, bad, and def leap to mind).

Or would you prefer to argue with Abraham Lincoln as to whether a tail should count as a fifth leg?
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:31 PM   #81
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And all this time I thought a "magazine" was what you rolled up and swatted the dog with.
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:54 PM   #82
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And all this time I thought a "magazine" was what you rolled up and swatted the dog with.
That depends on what kind of periodic publication your magazine is.

It could be a annual, bimonthly, biweekly, booklet, broadside, brochure, circular, daily, digest, gazette, glossy, joint, journal, manual, monthly, newsletter, newspaper, organ, pamphlet, paper, periodical, pulp, quarterly, rag, review, semiweekly, sheet, slick, throwaway or weekly. Do you want to amuse the dog, annoy the dog, get his attention or chastise him.

Really people, we must be more specific and choose our words wisely for young children may be listening and you wouldn't want them to grow up to be politicians would you.
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Old May 13, 2013, 11:27 PM   #83
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9 mm Luger designation to avoid confusion with WHAT other 9mms?
It was introduced with the 1902 "fat barrel" Luger pistol, apparently not seen in the USA til 1903 and adopted by the German navy in 1904. The German army did not catch up til 1908. (Still another name for the round, 9mm '08.)

The 9mm Browning Long dates to 1907, I think, the 9mm Browning Short/.380 to 1908, the 9mm Bergmann Bayard to 1910, and the 9mm Steyr to 1911.
The Para was first. No confusion possible for a while. Careful naming became necessary because of the competition.

It's not that there is no logical system of cartridge and caliber nomenclature, it's just that there are several and you have to learn which you are looking at.
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Old May 14, 2013, 12:23 AM   #84
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5 rounds in clip ready to load into the magazine.



rounds loaded into the magazine



I just can't pass up an opportunity to show off my baby.
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Old May 14, 2013, 06:01 AM   #85
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OK, so the speed loader for my revolver is technically a clip and the cylinder a magazine.
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Old May 14, 2013, 06:30 AM   #86
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I'm REALLY confused now.
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Old May 14, 2013, 08:35 AM   #87
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"Mike, there is a difference between a clip and a magazine; it is one of kind, not degree.

While words change over time, they normally do not change in a way that creates direct conflict with meaning, with the exception of slang (hot, cool, bad, and def leap to mind).

Or would you prefer to argue with Abraham Lincoln as to whether a tail should count as a fifth leg?"


WHAT?

You mean, like, words actually mean things and stuff? I had no idea!

Here's a particuarly nuanced concept...

Words mean things because people ACCEPT that they mean something.

There's no American Society for Correct and Absolute Word Definitions and Usage that sets a definitive standard for what a word means.

That means that the English language is, by and large, heuristic AND a reflection AND invention of the needs and desires of the people who use it.

You can stamp your foot all you want and shout "CLIP AND MAGAZINE ARE NOT THE SAME THING!"

But, for many people, a clip and a magazine ARE the EXACT same thing, because they UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT them to be the same thing.

One can find that reality reflected in common usage dictionaries, where ammunition clip and magazine have similar to identical definitions.

So, while the Abraham Lincoln story is quaint, it is, in its own way, a reflection of the reality of the situation.

So, you can do one of two things...

1. You can accept that the English language and its practitioners aren't living up to your exacting standards, or

2. You can make it your personal mission in life to change public consciousness and culture.

Me, I don't particularly care, because I choose the unique concept of COMPREHENSION.

I know what they're talking about, I UNDERSTAND their statement, so I see no need to be a snob and call out their ignorance publicly.
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Last edited by 4V50 Gary; May 14, 2013 at 01:01 PM.
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Old May 14, 2013, 08:40 AM   #88
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CLIP!





MAGAZINE!

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Old May 14, 2013, 08:42 AM   #89
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So when I send my son back to the house to get the clips I forgot ad he returns with more magazines I can just pat him on the head and say thanks.
I know I know I should get off my lazy butt and go back and get them my self.

Last edited by Rumpelhardt; May 14, 2013 at 08:49 AM.
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Old May 14, 2013, 08:45 AM   #90
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Many Grammar Nazis attack because they cannot find any good attack in a debate so they did up some grammar to have a shot at.
Quote:
Grammar Samurai frowns upon your dangling preposition.
Quote:
And Conan the Grammarian takes a swipe at the very confusing misspelling of "dig."
As you both become trapped in the quote maze pit.
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Old May 14, 2013, 08:58 AM   #91
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"he returns with more magazines I can just pat him on the head and say thanks..."

Well, if he brings the right kind of magazines, and some beer, you can make a day of it.
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Old May 14, 2013, 09:15 AM   #92
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Well in that case I would hope that he brings my glasses as well. I probably forgot those too. That beer had better be root beer.
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Old May 14, 2013, 09:51 AM   #93
Lucas McCain
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I vote its time to shut this thread of drivel down!
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Old May 14, 2013, 10:02 AM   #94
Mike Irwin
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'I vote its time to shut this thread of drivel down!'

No, no, no!

It's much more correctest to say "I voting it's time to be shut this thread of drivel downed."
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Old May 14, 2013, 10:10 AM   #95
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Hmm...

magazine vs clip...The long debated topic. Reminds me of a now long retired instructor who showed up to teach with a magazine (periodical publication) folded, and within the folded magazine were several rounds of ammunition, and then asked folks to define it.

So Id say a magazine (ammunition feeding device) is a proper term for a typical box type feeding device. Now, if you put that same magazine (ammunition feeding device) into another magazine (periodical publication) would we call it a double magazine, concealed magazine, or else a highly informed magazine?
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Old May 14, 2013, 10:12 AM   #96
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"Now, if you put that same magazine (ammunition feeding device) into another magazine (periodical publication) would we call it a double magazine, concealed magazine, or else a highly informed magazine?"

I'd call it an interesting trip to the men's room.
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Old May 14, 2013, 10:30 AM   #97
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"Now, if you put that same magazine (ammunition feeding device) into another magazine (periodical publication) would we call it a double magazine, concealed magazine, or else a highly informed magazine?"
OBVIOUSLY it becomes an assault magazine. As it has clearly more stuff it in the a normal magazine a reasonable person would need.
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Old May 14, 2013, 10:59 AM   #98
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Because it seems to fit and Pop and were arguing about it late last night.

Is it correct to call the .308/7.62x51mm NATO round .30 Caliber? And an M-14 a .30 caliber rifle?
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Old May 14, 2013, 11:38 AM   #99
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As you both become trapped in the quote maze pit.
Grammar Samurai is disappointed by sentence fragments.

So is Clippy.

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Old May 14, 2013, 11:42 AM   #100
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Thanks Tom...

I had almost forgot about clippy.
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