The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 6, 2013, 10:16 AM   #101
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,447
I would have no problem with an organized march where participants are holding placards with pictures of guns, the 2nd Amendment, Flags, pro-freedom messages, etc. Sort of a Tea-Party rally addressing gun rights instead of taxes.
Skans is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 07:48 AM   #102
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 1,195
Guess which genius not only showed up.....

In line with some predictions from the early part of this thread, where the march in DC was officially cancelled, it appears this potentially bad publicity isn't going to help law abiding gun owners:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sAGGoPidEY


The Washington Post indicates the DCPD is looking into it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...080_story.html

Any bets on Mr. Kokesh's future?
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابي
TXAZ is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 07:58 AM   #103
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,232
From the link just above...
Quote:
U.S. Park Police and the D.C. police are investigating the authenticity of a video that surfaced Thursday morning that appears to show activist Adam Kokesh loading a shotgun in Freedom Plaza and describing himself as part of the “final American Revolution.”
Final American Revolution? Does that sound just a little nutty or what? I am not sure folks like Kokesh are ultimately helpful to our cause.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 08:08 AM   #104
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 1,195
What's the chance he's actually pretty clever andshot this video on a green screen and is looking for a false arrest suit?
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابي
TXAZ is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 02:18 PM   #105
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 7,355
Quote:
What's the chance he's actually pretty clever andshot this video on a green screen and is looking for a false arrest suit?
IMO, he would be out of luck. By posting the video with the D.C. background and the graphic stating it is at Freedom Plaza, he has admitted illegal conduct. He may disavow this admission later, and perhaps even prove it's a fake video. However, police seem to have probable cause to arrest and charge him so that a false arrest suit would fail.
__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.
KyJim is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 02:45 PM   #106
creightonenterprises
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 4, 2013
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 9
I can understand why someone would organize a march like this, but it's just too extreme. These guys are going to end up getting too much attention for all the wrong reasons. I sure as heck would never participate in that!
creightonenterprises is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 02:55 PM   #107
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 2,984
March-yes!! Armed-NO!!!! Only thing we should carry are signs, banners, placards-and lots of trash bags.
SIGSHR is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 09:07 PM   #108
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 9,491
When I first saw the video, I laughed so hard I think I bruised my sinuses. Then I realized it wasn't meant to be funny.

The part at the end when he cycles the action on the shotgun for dramatic effect is brilliant. "We are the FINAL [chunk!]. AMERICAN [chunk!] REVOLUTION!" I thought for sure he was going to yell "this is Sparta."

The title is somewhat misleading as well. "Open Carry March on DC a success?" I don't see any marching. I just see one guy.

Frankly, the DC police can investigate it or not. If I were in their shoes, I simply wouldn't give him the attention. Ironically, that's what I'd suggest gun owners do as well. There's a line between civil disobedience and being a dink to get attention, and it's really not all that fuzzy.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old July 5, 2013, 09:28 PM   #109
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
...There's a line between civil disobedience and being a dink to get attention, and it's really not all that fuzzy.
And IMHO, Kokesh is so far on the wrong side of that line he can not be justifiably given any credence at all.

Folks, we in the RKBA movement really need to (1) start recognizing the importance of winning over public opinion; and (2) start to learn and understand how to actually do that. We have become masters at snatching defeat out of the jaws of victor.

I wrote this in a post in another thread:
Quote:
...I continue to be dismayed by the failure of so many in the RKBA community to recognize the importance of positively influencing public opinion or to have any real clue about how to determine how to go about doing that.

During the course of my career I've had a pretty fair amount of experience working with business clients who needed to be able to influence public perception, understand how to make advertising effective and find the best ways to effectively communicate their messages. When a lot was at stake, they didn't just guess or say "if it worked for Rosa Parks."

When they sat around their conference tables (I was there), they didn't assume that their audiences would think the ways they did or have the same values and perceptions. They consulted with psychologists and others who have studied human motivation and perception and beliefs. They thoroughly analyzed the demographics of the audiences and tried to understand what they cared about, what they were scared of, what made them happy or feel secure, what they believed and didn't believe.

They also tested their conclusions with surveys and focus groups. They paid attention to what was happening and made adjustments in their messages and techniques if things weren't working the way they wanted them to.

And I strongly suspect that our opposition is doing at least some of those things....
__________________
Formerly known as fiddletown
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old July 6, 2013, 08:49 AM   #110
Tucker 1371
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: East TN
Posts: 1,896
And to think he WAS a Marine, emphasis on the was, he is an embarrassment to our Corps and the second amendment cause and no longer deserves the title if you ask me. What a freakin froot loop.
__________________
NCO of Marines, 3rd Award Expert Rifle, 236 KD Range
D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! OEF 21JUN-20SEP2011
REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Tucker 1371 is offline  
Old July 7, 2013, 03:24 PM   #111
Boomer58cal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2013
Location: closer than you think
Posts: 964
Talk has done nothing but let the left erode our rights.

At what point do you do more than talk?

Are you going to wait for them to take the rest of our rights before you do more talk?

How far is too far?

They don't just talk why should we?

When talk has failed and you think marching is crazy what should we do then?

You'll probably do what most Americans are doing...Nothing.

Wake Up America!!!


Boomer
__________________
The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war.
We're from the government, we're here to help
Boomer58cal is offline  
Old July 7, 2013, 05:42 PM   #112
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 9,491
Quote:
You'll probably do what most Americans are doing...Nothing.
Boomer, you might be surprised to find just how active many of us on this forum are.

To suggest that we're doing nothing because we don't support a certain particular action is a bit disingenuous.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 09:31 AM   #113
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,120
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...y.html?hpid=z2

Busted for drugs while in possession of a firearm.

Not clear if the video triggered the search.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 09:39 AM   #114
Dashunde
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2004
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
At what point do you do more than talk?
At no point is acting kooky and illegal the right thing to do.
Dashunde is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 09:46 AM   #115
deepcreek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 320
The guy is just a mad dog, hopefully not too many people are stupid enough to follow him.
Seems like they got him in the court system so he will probably end up fighting charges, getting tired/wore down, taking a plea which requires good behavior and the mad dog gets his balls sniped.

I am all for protest and activism but you need some kind of tactics and logical methods or you are just a ranting idiot.
deepcreek is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 09:55 AM   #116
Wyoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,218
Hmm?

In the Post article linked above, he is quoted as saying that he was expecting a raid by police after he posted the video.

So, why on earth, if he was expecting the raid, did he have illegal drugs in his home?

I can only think of three reasons: 1) the guy is a complete idiot or 2) the drugs in question were prescriptions for someone else and he is a complete idiot or 3) that they were his scripts and the police are just using them as an excuse for an arrest which will be thrown out later.

Hmm?
__________________
Go Pokes!
Go Rams!
Wyoredman is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 10:04 AM   #117
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,727
The article says he was in possession of hallucinogenic mushrooms when arrested. I was unaware that anybody prescribed magic mushrooms for anything.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 10:09 AM   #118
Wyoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,218
Ah, yes!

Reading too fast and I missed that little bit!

So, it is choice #1. The guy is an idiot!

I mean, really, why have illegal drugs in your home when you are expecting a raid! Simple, simple, simple!
__________________
Go Pokes!
Go Rams!
Wyoredman is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 10:15 AM   #119
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,727
Yeah, if you're going to be an activist, you should expect contact with the police and plan accordingly. . . . It really is that simple.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 12:30 PM   #120
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 9,491
Well, this guy's wanted to be a martyr the whole time, and now he'll be doing it from prison. At least a felony conviction will bar him from owning firearms in the future.

I guess we won't be seeing him next Independence Day.

FWIW, despite the headline, the article does a fairly good article of painting Kokesh as a lone crackpot rather than a spokesperson for our cause.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 12:40 PM   #121
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 778
I hate being the tin-foil hat wearer but

When was the last time anyone such as Kokesh was a big-hallucinogen fan?

And more importantly... when was the last time the local PD needed 20 SWAT team members to clear a house full for mushrooms? I know they overuse these forces to make everything abundantly overpowering/safe, along with instilling a chilling effect, but I just don't buy it. The article i read on the Washington Post screamed of "EAT THIS STORY UP AND DON'T QUESTION IT."

Edit: I am in no way a fan or even tolerable of his idea of an armed march on DC.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 02:14 PM   #122
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,021
Quote:
And more importantly... when was the last time the local PD needed 20 SWAT team members to clear a house full for mushrooms?
That came from the website ran by Kokesh. i put no stock in anything Kokesh or his friends have to say.

BTW: Kokesh was arrested by the U. S. Park Police who are responsible for policing Freedom Plaza, where Kokesh went into his act. Kokesh may be looking at a federal felony charge.

From the link:

Quote:
U.S. Park Police Lt. Pamela Smith said her agency executed a search warrant at Kokesh’s home in Herndon about 7:45 p.m. Tuesday, looking for a weapon. The park police are the federal agency responsible for policing Freedom Plaza, the concrete park a few blocks from the White House where — in a video posted to YouTube on July 4 — Kokesh appears to load a shotgun in violation of D.C. gun laws.
thallub is online now  
Old July 10, 2013, 02:34 PM   #123
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 9,491
Quote:
when was the last time the local PD needed 20 SWAT team members to clear a house full for mushrooms?
When the occupant is known to be armed, is known to flaunt gun laws and publicize the event, and when he describes his video as "very specifically a call to overthrow the United States federal government.”

Additionally, we're looking at four felonies at the very least:
  • Unlawful possession of a firearm
  • Possession of unlawful (ie, unregistered) ammunition
  • Possession of Schedule I controlled substance
  • Possesssion of a firearm during commission of a felony

Given all that, it's reasonable to consider this man armed, mentally unbalanced, and potentially very dangerous.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 03:03 PM   #124
Wyoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,218
I second the "mentally unbalanced" description!

That is more PC than what I was thinking - NIMROD!
__________________
Go Pokes!
Go Rams!
Wyoredman is offline  
Old July 10, 2013, 04:07 PM   #125
overhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2013
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 182
The fact he was caught with mushrooms helps me to understand some of his rather odd behavior over the past couple of years.

I did not think much of his intelligence and that opinion has not been changed by the fact he allegedly kept illegal drugs in his house along with firearms after putting a video like that on the internet.
overhead is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13915 seconds with 7 queries