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Old May 21, 2013, 01:45 PM   #76
rebs
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I am not in favor of an armed march until such time as we loose the 2nd amendment. Until then don't give them any reason or excuse to make us look like the bad guy or give then any ammo to further their agenda..
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Old May 21, 2013, 04:18 PM   #77
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I fear that this issue isn't as black and white as we make it appear. Much of it stems from our respect for law and order and doing things the right way. I'm all on board with that. But at what point does that change? Let's face it, our founders broke the law and some may argue they had less reason in their time then we do in our time. They would of been hung if not successful. Yet we celebrate them with good reason. One person marching down to the White House is a bad idea doomed to failure. Same with 100, a 1000, maybe even 10,000. And the things that could possibly go wrong are so many as to be frighting. Bad option.

But the darker side of me realizes that there is so much wrong with our current system, namely the lack of respect and adherence for the constitution from all three branches of our government let alone a majority of the population, that thinkin the system will protect our rights would be foolhardy. 2nd amendment supporters and conservatives in general have zero hope of getting the constitution back. It's not that I feel all that the unconstitutional things our government has done since our inception are bad or unnecessary, I just believe the precedent is set to ignore the constitution and the amendment process and the fixes needed to keep it from happening will not occur in our lifetimes nor our children's lifetimes. Can you imagine how far out in left field thing will be by then?

We are, as always, caught in the middle of the worse of 2 evils. Doing something is bad, doing nothing is bad, doing things down the middle proves fruitless. Third party has an appeal but the leading people that may know what needs done have no real world idea how to accomplish it. You can't fix 200 years in-adherence with one swipe of the pen like some recent canadents and their parties think. It would be anarchy and erase some necessary things in the process. Not to mention how corrupt the new officials would be in short order. And good luck trying to win voters getting something for nothing.

Like I said, not black and white. I don't have answers just questions.
I completely agree with you.

A line must be drawn somewhere, its just a matter of where. People often forget how the American Revolution started: Confiscation.
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Old May 21, 2013, 10:35 PM   #78
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A march on DC could be a good idea, especially if the numbers are there.
BTDT, no one paid attention. It was a waste of time and money. Gun owners work. They can't go to DC for a march en mass when congress is in session.

"I am not in favor of an armed march until such time as we loose the 2nd amendment." The second amendment is gone. "Sporting use" "Common use" etc destroy it. Now all we have is political tides. They are going our way at current though.
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Old May 21, 2013, 11:22 PM   #79
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A line must be drawn somewhere, its just a matter of where.
The problems are:
  1. Who gets to decide where and when that line is drawn?
  2. What gives them the authority to do so?
  3. What of those of us who disagree?
Incoherent, selfish chest-beaters like Kokesh don't speak for me, and I detest their assertions that they do.
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Old May 21, 2013, 11:31 PM   #80
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Big Bird PhD
...People often forget how the American Revolution started: Confiscation.
That initiated a particular engagement, but a lot was going on leading up to it. And let's not forget that the American Revolution was not about guns. It was about a number of social, political and economic issues.
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Old May 22, 2013, 11:48 AM   #81
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The problems are:

Who gets to decide where and when that line is drawn?
What gives them the authority to do so?
What of those of us who disagree?

Incoherent, selfish chest-beaters like Kokesh don't speak for me, and I detest their assertions that they do.
I more than agree. I want nothing to do with this march and resent Kolesh. I'm just saying each person, personally and individually, should know their limits. Regardless of the topic.

Quote:
That initiated a particular engagement, but a lot was going on leading up to it. And let's not forget that the American Revolution was not about guns. It was about a number of social, political and economic issues.
I am well aware. The symbolism it has in comparison to our modern culture's anti-gun movement is the more relevant part, not to what degree guns, taxes, colonial rights, etc. played.

Revolutions and civil wars are always about money, but the tipping points never take place in a bank.
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Old May 22, 2013, 02:01 PM   #82
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Adam Kokesh talks all kinds of stuff about revolution and the Revolutionary War. i'm descended from at least 12 Revolutionary War veterans: Kokesh does not speak for me or mine.

Adam Kokesh is an insignificant rabble rouser whose "cause" is being pimped by fringe media idiots.
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Old May 22, 2013, 04:41 PM   #83
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Just found out today that he was arrested a couple days ago.
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Old May 22, 2013, 06:18 PM   #84
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Not much information is available about the circumstances of his arrest. There's a link to a video of his arrest in this post, but it doesn't really show what happened. I did find a PDF of the federal criminal complaint against him -- it's available here, and includes an affidavit from the investigating officer. According to this piece in the Washington Times, a hearing is set for tomorrow; from the sound of things, it may be "lively."
Quote:
Adam Kokesh is an insignificant rabble rouser whose "cause" is being pimped by fringe media idiots.
Mmm-hmm. It's also only fringe media that are even reporting this story, pretty much.
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Old May 23, 2013, 08:30 PM   #85
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There is apparently a theory floating around blogosphere that Kokesh is employed by "Obama for America" since he allegedly posted this on his Facebook page before taking it down -- http://www.lady-patriots.com/the-smo...rks-for-obama/. I guess the thinking is that he is an agent provocateur supporting Obama. I find it hard to believe Kokesh would do everything he has done, including getting arrested, in an effort to discredit the RKBA movement.
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Old May 23, 2013, 08:44 PM   #86
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I don't disagree with an armed march. I do understand though that certain people would not appreciate the message, and so given the times moderation must be observed.

Before States existed, before the United States existed, there existed the inalienable right to arm and defends ones self. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights merely enumerated the limitation upon the government they were forming. The Constitution can not grant itself the power to take away that right, as the right existed among the men who drafted the Constitution. The Supreme Court, being a creation of the Constitution then also does not have the power, nor the Executive, nor the Executive. I would argue that even an Amendment to the Constitution would not have the power to deny an inalienable right.

The purpose of the Bill of Rights was not to grant rights. Everyone, regardless of nationality, has these rights. They are not Constitutional Rights. They are not American Rights. They are human rights.
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Old May 23, 2013, 08:44 PM   #87
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Too much time on the hands of Mr. Kokesh maybe?
I just hope no serious RKBA supporters get involved with him, not a good association.
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Old June 1, 2013, 11:18 AM   #88
Fishing_Cabin
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looks like the armed march is canceled now, for DC at least.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ch-washington/

Quote:
Originally Posted by washingtontimes.com link above
“Please don’t come to Washington, D.C.,” Adam Kokesh said during an interview on the online “Pete Santilli Show,” saying he could not be certain he would be present for an event in the District and instead urging supporters to march in the 50 state capitals in favor of dissolving the federal government.
Now though he has another plan...Hmm, I don't think an armed march in all 50 state capitals is going great either. Would probably vary a tad by state. Just my opinion.
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Old June 1, 2013, 07:32 PM   #89
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This March on DC is the kind of thing that makes gun owners look bad..
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Old June 2, 2013, 03:41 PM   #90
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Well...in PR terms there may be one way to make it look halfway decent.

The Palmer carry case in DC was filed August 6, 2009. Since then full orals and motions have been filed and we've now been waiting years for a decision.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=457017

This is now long past any possible reasonable delay. So if we're going to do a march, it should be on August 9th and should take place outside the dang courthouse where the decision is supposed to be released!

Then, if there's a bunch of arrests, the media with any luck will report why this happened when and where it did and the average voter will have to ask why the hell the delay?

Let's all remember something: our right to go to court over an injustice is linked to a basic civil right: the 1st Amendment right to petition for redress of grievance. A delay this severe urinates all over that right in a fashion that even the most far-left Sarah Brady Zombie Clone[tm] can understand.
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Old June 2, 2013, 04:22 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim March
...Then, if there's a bunch of arrests, the media with any luck will report why this happened when and where it did and the average voter will have to ask why the hell the delay?...
What makes you think that the average voter will care even the very tiniest wit about the delay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim March
...our right to go to court over an injustice is linked to a basic civil right...
And what makes you think the average person sees this as an injustice or as having anything to do with basic civil rights? What makes you think that anyone but us care at all?
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Old June 3, 2013, 01:58 PM   #92
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I don't think my CC Permit is reciprocal with Washington DC. How can this be done....LEGALLY, again???
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Old June 3, 2013, 02:15 PM   #93
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It can't be done legally.
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Old June 3, 2013, 04:02 PM   #94
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There may come a time when I would be willing to demonstrate against a clearly oppressive unconstitutional law. This is not such a time. And, marching down the street with a sidearm strapped in plain view, breaking multiple firearms laws would not likely be my method.
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Old June 5, 2013, 02:07 PM   #95
rebs
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I still do not think an armed march is a good idea. Too much to go wrong especially if the police know it is an armed march, they maybe on close look out for any problems and armed makes it more dangerous. If you guys insist on doing this then at least keep your hands in full view at all times so no one thinks you might be reaching for a gun. Even at that I still think its a very bad idea. All there needs to be is one incident, the press will blow it all up and it will reflect on all gun owners. This could very well do more harm than good and give the anti gunners more ammo to throw at us.
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Old June 5, 2013, 10:14 PM   #96
wayneinFL
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I am not in favor of an armed march until such time as we loose the 2nd amendment. Until then don't give them any reason or excuse to make us look like the bad guy or give then any ammo to further their agenda..
By that time, you'll be marching with break action shotguns.
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Old June 6, 2013, 06:37 AM   #97
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Marching on DC to show solidarity and express our wishes is a great way to get the ball rolling. The 2 problems IMO are 1) that the ball is already rolling in our direction, 2) committing a felony shows stupidity not express wishes.
I wouldnt be surprised to find out that this organizer is working for the "other" side.
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Old June 6, 2013, 08:02 AM   #98
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Seems that only folks like the Black Panthers can do such things and get away scot free. It was not a good idea, unless participants were willing to be arrested and the ensuing consequences.

Jerry
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Old June 6, 2013, 08:58 AM   #99
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Seems that only folks like the Black Panthers can do such things and get away scot free.
If you're referring to the 1967 armed protests, that ended up being a net loss for the 2nd Amendment.
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Old June 6, 2013, 09:03 AM   #100
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As previously stated, hopefully his arrest leads to this thing not happening. It seems like a terrible idea that is doomed to fuel the media's negative imaging of American gun owners. Plus, we seem to have the momentum rigt now anyway; the best thing we can do for our RKBA is to vote accordingly for the next cycle and stay out of trouble.
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