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Old May 5, 2013, 07:06 PM   #1
Gumby4
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500 Yard Rifle

Guys, I'm looking for a rifle to punch out to 500 yards. I plan on target shooting &you possibly deer. Wanna try to keep the rifle under $900-$1,000. I like the .308 caliber as well, but am open to suggestions. Lastly, it must be bolt action. What do y'all suggest?
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Old May 5, 2013, 07:52 PM   #2
kraigwy
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Any good quality hunting rifle, Winchester, Remington, Savage, etc. will suit your purposes.

Just find one that fits you.

Having shot a lot of 1000 yard matches with a 308 I don't think it would have any problems at 500.
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Old May 5, 2013, 09:20 PM   #3
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Gumby, welcome to the forum!

Does the $1000 include a scope? How accurate do you want to be at 500 yards.. are we talking shooting for fun or hoping to get into competition?

I like to assume a 9" kill zone when hunting deer, so I would see that as the least accurate your rifle can be at whatever distance you plan to hunt at.

.308 has been getting the job done for decades now, it will definitely meet your needs. It is reasonably cheap and (normally) easy to find. There are plenty of calibers that will shoot well at 500 yards though. .260 Remington or a heavy .243 would be options that have less recoil. Or you could look at some of the 7mm or 300 magnums. More power than you need to punch paper, but some people love them. To me they are just expensive and kick too hard.
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Old May 5, 2013, 10:08 PM   #4
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Get yourself a Savage Hog Hunter in 308. A 20" barrel will handle 500 yards just fine. The rifle goes for around $500.
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Old May 6, 2013, 09:41 AM   #5
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As others said it really depends on what your intended use is. I like the -06 calibers. 30-06,270,25-06 etc.. They are all great at 500 and if your intending to hunt at that range the 30-06 will carry a little more energy when it gets there.
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Old May 6, 2013, 10:02 AM   #6
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Like most of these "what should I get" questions the answer is short and simple, especially in your price range. Get what you want and what feels good. The list of bad guns to be avoided is much shorter and well below your price point. So there's not too many worries for you there. And guns in your price point are gonna be very equal in performance. Keep in mind that for 99% of shooters, even paper punchers, a sporter weight barrel will do just fine and carries much better in the field. Save the heavy bull barreled rigs for dedicated bench guns and varmint hunters.

The .308 is fine for your intended use especially for a non reloader. For reloaders the 7mm-08 shines.
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Old May 6, 2013, 08:00 PM   #7
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Thanks y'all. No, the $1,000 doesn't include optics. For now, it's just for fun but maybe a few local matches. My best friend & "go to guy" for my gun questions also suggested the hog rifle. Guess we'll see, huh? Lol
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Old May 11, 2013, 07:14 AM   #8
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your new 500 yard rifle,

you can take it for what its worth ,but for my money you won,t find a better rifle for target and hunting then a REM 7OO BDL. IN 270 WIN.
you can find a used 700 in good shape for around $600 DON,T waste your money on a new Remington they an,t what they use to be ,put the difference in price. toward bedding the stock, its worth every penny .Add a quality scope&rings "YOU GET YOU PAY FOR" and have fun.
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Old May 11, 2013, 07:35 AM   #9
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A Savage 12 FV would be a super gun. Their bolt action design is superior due to the floating head as is their jam nut barrrel which allows assembly fit headspace vs machining fit headspace. Also, they button rifle barrels and have a great OOTB accutrigger. ~$725 MSRP, but I'm thinking you find it foe $600 ish. Then add the ~$600 scope of your choice and you have a heck of a rifle.

I have a 12 BVSS and my friend has a 10 FCP McMillan. Mine can hold .6" @ 100 yards. His .5"@100 yards. Not bad. We both have quality scopes mounted.

The exact scope will depend on what you are shooting at and how you want to setup for shots.

These will be heavier guns although I carried mine antelope hunting.

If you want lighter, they make lighter guns too. Based on experience, I would avoid their package guns. The optics are usually way too cheap. . .probably the cause of the so so accuracy rep.
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Old May 11, 2013, 08:18 AM   #10
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My Ruger American is the gun, in .270!
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Old May 11, 2013, 08:46 AM   #11
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I've also got a Ruger .270 in an M77 ultra light package. The .270 has superior ballistics to the .308 at 500 yds. I know some will disagree, but look at the statistics they don't lie.

.270 Swift Sirrocco 130gr, 1211ftlbs of energy, -38.2 (drop) at 500yds
.308 Swift Sirrocco 150gr, 1156ftlbs of energy, -46.0 (drop) at 500yds
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Old May 11, 2013, 08:55 AM   #12
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I am inclined to agree with catrock in Post 8, though I would keep my 700 action in 30-06, using Nosler BT's at 2900+.

Old Savage 110's are excellent rifles as well.

Edited at add: I am not a match rifle shooter, just an old gunnie who likes to stretch out a rifle once in awhile. I have played with the 700/30-06/Nosler BT combo to 880 yards where it produced a few five-shot, 5 gallon bucket sized groups when the wind would cooperate. We had to shim the hell out of rings, mounts and use ALL the vertical adjustment in the old Bushnell we were using- and still ended up holding at the top pf an 8' pallet frame we built and covered with cardboard. It was a PITA but it certainly boosted my confidence in the stock barrel's ability to group.
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Old May 11, 2013, 09:11 AM   #13
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CZ 550

CZ offers three different models of their 550 in 308, one being a sort of conventional looking rifle the "American", another being the FS or "full stock" and also a "Varmint" version with a heavy barrel.

I am pleased with all of mine, and they have some unique features I think. They sport controlled round feed, detachable box magazines, a set trigger, cold hammer forged barrels, and some really nice walnut stocks, if that is important to you.

The fit and finish of these rifles is really very good. The wood to metal fit is impeccable. The magazines are works of art, and work very well. The magazine release is located in the front of the trigger guard "bow," sort of where one would find the safety on a M1 or M14. Simply press the knuckle of the trigger finger against the little lever and the magazine pops free. Best of all, the rifle will accept the beautiful little 10 round CZ 750 magazines as well.

The rifle itself just reeks of quality, and mine shoot better than I can.

Only drawback is they are maybe a little bit heavier than the other manufacturers, which can be important if you have to carry one very far.

Just something else to think on.
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Old May 12, 2013, 07:38 AM   #14
Bart B.
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If good accuracy is your number one objective, I would not trust any commercial removable external box magazine rifle as being as accurate as a commercial internal fixed box magazine. The chances of that external box magazine being in the same place for every shot as well as each time is fit to the rifle are slim. Therefore, I question the accuracy level such a rifle will maintain.

The very best M14NM competition rifles had this problem and service members had to find two magazines that shot to the same point of aim with both repeatably every time used, for rapid fire matches where they had to reload with a second magazine in the 10-shot string of fire. Sometimes over 1 MOA difference in zero as well as test group sizes were observed.

On the other hand, if having more rounds available to shoot before reloading is necessary, then by all means get a rifle with detachable magazines holding more rounds than intenal box magazines have.
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Old May 12, 2013, 08:55 AM   #15
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My biggest gripe about external box (DBM) magazines are about 80 percent of them don't work.

We see shooter after shooter after shooter on the firing line at our matches with "tacti-cool" rifles with those type mags hanging up. The guy has to fiddle with the bolt... drop the box out of the action, fiddle with that a bit... smack it a time or two... reinsert it, then try again.

The most reliable feeding design for a bolt action rifle, in my opinion, remains the rotary magazine design.

I have a 1937 Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifle with a rotary magazine and it is 100 percent reliable.

Also, take a pre-64 Model 70 Winchester... 100 percent feed reliable.

As to newer model, commonly available rifles, Savage's "center feed" mags work pretty well, from what I'm seeing.

But unless that box mag is done right, by someone who really knows what he's doing... I wouldn't put much faith in it.

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Old May 12, 2013, 10:46 AM   #16
Bart B.
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Dan says take a pre-64 Model 70 Winchester... 100 percent feed reliable. The solution to all those folks using Rem 700 short actions in .308 Win. had feed problems in rapid fire matches trying to shoot 10 shots in 60 seconds without a round jamming in them. I've seen dozens of Rem 700 magazine jams with the .308; only 3 or 4 with the Win 70's over the years. And there were 5 times as many Winnies on the line than Remmies. One of the Winnie with a feed issue was my own rifle. So the Winnies are realistically 99.9 percent feed reliable. But that's a lot better than the lower feed reliability numbers for the Remmies.

But one thing about those pre-'64 controlled round feed actions but rarely happened. The follower for the .308's and .243's need a wider angled flat filed on their top rib and/or the magazine spread to a full fit at its top to the receiver rails. Sometimes they would stack the first two rounds together on the same side and not allow a clip of 5 rounds put in the receiver bridge clip guide then charged into the box magazine would only get 4 rounds in the magazine; the fifth top one would not go in. This was the issue with my Winnie.

Regarding external box magazines, those made for and used in M14NM's were the best mass produced military ones ever but they still had to be tested and only the good ones used. The current custom David Tubb 2000 and Gary Eliseo tube gun's external magazines are the cream of the current commercial crop.
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Old May 12, 2013, 12:55 PM   #17
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Dang Bart, I had no idea the short 700's had feed problems. I've used the standard-length blind mag 700's pretty steady for 30 years and I've never had a glitch. Of course I'm not running them as hard as high-power shooters, either.

BTW I love the old Model 70 and would have a half dozen if I could afford them.
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Old May 12, 2013, 01:00 PM   #18
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I'd just like to throw the Ruger M77s hat into the ring. I own a M77 mark II and my brother has 4 m77s including a MKII. they are all very accurate long range shooters(except where caliber is a limitation). I would trust any of them to 500 yards.

you could also look around for a well sporterized mauser or springfield(not just a hacksaw and cordless drill type job). some of them are amazing shooters.

30-06 is also a good option to consider. it has little bit better ballistics across the board and isn't hit quite as hard by buying frenzies as the 308.
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Old May 12, 2013, 02:19 PM   #19
Bart B.
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Sarge, when I was in South Africa, I talked with some of the pro hunters guiding us Americans on big game hunts. When Remington came out with their 700's chambered for the .375 H&H Mag and .458 Win Mag, they proved to not be as reliable as the Win 70's chambered for the same behemoth buster cartridges. They sometimes failed due to magazine feeding and their short bolt handle being not all that easy to grasp in a hurry for rapid fire when the "Big Five" were up close, mad and personal and a reliable was required. They said most of the pro hunters felt Win 70's were the only standard size reliable large caliber bolt action besides the huge magnum Mauser actions made for the .416 Rigby, .505 Gibbs and other big bore cartridges.

And the Rem 7XX extractors have been a reliability issue for decades. Lots of folks have an M16 style or Sako extractor fit in their Rem 7XX bolts, both of which are virtually fool proof.

========

tahunua001, I've only seen one Ruger rifle used once in competition and it wasn't all that great. It was one of those 20 horrible, inaccurate, poorly designed rifles they made for the US Palma Team back in 1991. I don't know of any of their bolt actions used in serious center fire rifle competition these days.
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Old May 12, 2013, 04:34 PM   #20
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My vote...Winchester 70 in 300 win mag.
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Old May 12, 2013, 05:24 PM   #21
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Bart, I'm trying to understand this and it isn't working for me.....

If good accuracy is your number one objective, I would not trust any commercial removable external box magazine rifle as being as accurate as a commercial internal fixed box magazine. The chances of that external box magazine being in the same place for every shot as well as each time is fit to the rifle are slim. Therefore, I question the accuracy level such a rifle will maintain.

The very best M14NM competition rifles had this problem and service members had to find two magazines that shot to the same point of aim with both repeatably every time used, for rapid fire matches where they had to reload with a second magazine in the 10-shot string of fire. Sometimes over 1 MOA difference in zero as well as test group sizes were observed.


Can you run that up the flag pole again? I'm not understanding how the detachable box mag can shift POI from one magazine to another. Many thanks.
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Old May 12, 2013, 05:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
If good accuracy is your number one objective, I would not trust any commercial removable external box magazine rifle as being as accurate as a commercial internal fixed box magazine
Are you saying how the mag sits in the rifle effects accuracy ? Can you please elaborate on this point . I'm having a hard time getting my head around this idea . I'm just thinking of it like this . The mag would be more consistent then feeding each round in by hand .Yes ? I see alot of guys feed one bullet at a time in to there rifles . Buy doing so is your rifle going to be less accurate ? When you say or imply less accurate . Are we talking 1/10 MOA or less ? I just want to get a clear picture of what is being talked about here .

Quote:
We see shooter after shooter after shooter on the firing line at our matches with "tacti-cool" rifles with those type mags hanging up. The guy has to fiddle with the bolt... drop the box out of the action, fiddle with that a bit... smack it a time or two... reinsert it, then try again
If you all are talking about feeding issues and the problem that can cause by forcing you to mess with your gun and then have less time to take your shots . I can understand how that can effect how one would shoot .

Does having a DBM make the receiver less ridged and that intern effects accuracy or are the actions the same ?
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Old May 12, 2013, 06:36 PM   #23
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For my part, I wasn't commenting on how the DBM affects accuracy--just that the overwhelming majority of the systems I see are not very reliable...
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Old May 14, 2013, 08:47 PM   #24
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Hm. The CZ has a double stack, single feed, factory, 10 round magazine. This is not aftermarket modification of a M14 magazine. It is not some gunsmith fitting bottom metal from a different source to a Remington 700.

I have had to go through 4 of the magazines to get two that work reliably. Those that are reliable are very reliable, at least IME. As far as inconsistent accuracy attributable to the magazine, the rifle itself is quite accurate, and I haven't *noticed* any shift of the POI with a change of the magazine... I will keep an eye out for it.

Too, I had a Remington 40x with clip slot which accepted every clip I fed to it without complaint. I don't remember any misfeeds either, but this is when I was shooting highpower back in the 90s, and my memory is not what once it was.

I have no reason to doubt Bart B 's observations, just that it didn't happen to me. Guess I am lucky!

'Course at the time most guys shooting "match rifle" were shooting space gun AR15s. I don't remember any other bolt gunners on the line when I was shooting.
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Old May 15, 2013, 04:15 AM   #25
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.30 caliber anything will offer great coefficients .308 is a great caliber to serve both purposes... Low recoil and proven performance. The longer the barrel.. The more velocity... But also the longer the barrel... You loose accuracy due to the barrel resonating with greater length. 24" is the longest I would go... Couple it with a deresonator and you should be able to accomplish your goal.
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