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Old April 14, 2013, 09:33 PM   #1
triggerhappy2006
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Stress Drills

I'm wondering how many people do "stress drills" in combination with their other drills. Stress Drill to me means something where your heart rate is significantly elevated IE sprint 400 meters or so then work on marksmanship(speed reloads, Fail to fire, off hand shooting, one hand shooting, cross body offset from sights, etc etc)
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Old April 15, 2013, 02:24 PM   #2
sfmedic
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All the time - shooting moving communicating is key to tactical marksmanship.

sprint and shoots are a whole other animal. once the shooter gets back to the firing line keep them moving - getting behind cover , moving in depth, linear lanes, barricade shooting, live fire obstacle course runs you name it.

its a bad bad bad habit to get into by standing on a static firing line all day punching paper. you miss all the tactical aspects that come into play during a real gunfight.

and its a problem if you can shoot stressed. Its not as easy as you think to do the following tasks while your gasping for breath

identifying and moving to cover
high wall negotiations
low wall negotiations
pieing corners
moving in L , T, X hallways
quick peeks
negotiating windows
shooting from the prone, kneeling
recovering from being knocked down and shooting
egress from a structure
shooting from vehicles
shooting from a seated position
shooting while covering another
weapons retention drills
weak hand/offhand/injured hand drills
mag changes on the move / from behind cover
moving in depth / linear movement
etc etc etc

IMHO too many people think that putting massive quantities of bullets through tiny little holes in paper prepares them for a real life street encounter.......
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Old April 15, 2013, 03:55 PM   #3
DoubleDeuce 1
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I agree whole heartedly with SFMedic.
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Old April 16, 2013, 10:15 AM   #4
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Especially, when you get involved...

with a Biathlon group for XC skiing or the Summer Biathlon where you run or bike!
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Old April 16, 2013, 10:38 AM   #5
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does chasing after an elk through the forest count?
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Old April 16, 2013, 09:51 PM   #6
jrothWA
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Are you using`....

a SPEAR?

Elk is a different story, you need to be part mountain climber, eagle eye, &
the BEST marksmanship you have to get that elk!
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Old April 17, 2013, 09:17 AM   #7
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Well the closest thing to a spear I've used is a bow.... Still haven't got to pull the tri....errr um release the string on an Elk yet
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Old April 20, 2013, 08:39 PM   #8
Brit
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Reality

My first range, was an indoor one, upstairs. To introduce a little stress, I had the class (10 of them) run up the stairs, one guy collapsed!

Had to leave that out! Security Officers/ATM Guards, not quite commandos.

Thought we needed a little humor!
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Old April 21, 2013, 10:03 AM   #9
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So, what about the old guys around here?
Forget the running, squatting and such impossible things.
Old joints and hearts ain't made for it.
Instead, just follow the advice of Wild Bill Hickock.
Shoot slow and precise, very very fast, and be the first one to do it.
Danged young whipper snappers.
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Old April 21, 2013, 10:06 AM   #10
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On my own not so much. Trips to the range on my own time are more leisurely pursuits. Most of the military shooting I have done in the last ten years or so have been stress shoots (except qualifications).

I would say that stress shoots are absolutely essential for anyone who takes self defense seriously. You will never be able to recreate the anxiety levels of a life and death situations properly but you can emulate them by physically taxing yourself.

Quote:
Instead, just follow the advice of Wild Bill Hickock.
Shoot slow and precise, very very fast, and be the first one to do it.
That is not great advice. Wild Bill was nearly blind and killed one of his good friends accidentally doing just what he said.
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Old April 22, 2013, 06:56 AM   #11
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I was a fighter pilot in SEA. I learned rapidly that it was worth taking an extra second or two to take careful aim and to make sure dive angles and airspeed were dead on before releasing bombs. That's because anytime I missed, I had to go dive back in again and expose myself to the AAA two or three times -- an exposure time far greater and more dangerous than an extra second or two on the initial pass.

So Wild Bill was right in my opinion. Take your time and make each shot count. Missing fast is not advantageous!

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; April 22, 2013 at 08:29 AM.
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Old April 22, 2013, 08:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
I was a fighter pilot in SEA. I learned rapidly that it was worth taking an extra second or two to take careful aim and to make sure dive angles and airspeed were dead on before releasing bombs. That's because anytime I missed, I had to go dive back in again and expose myself to the AAA two or three times -- an exposure time far greater and more dangerous than an extra second or two on the initial pass.

So Wild Bill was right in my opinion. Take your time and make each shot count. Missing fast is not advantageous!
You were attacking people in open combat in time of war. Shooting first always a great idea then.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:02 PM   #13
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The main ability to hit with the first shot from the holster, dry fire and click.
Is so terribly important, that first shot might be the only one you get to fire.

Be sure your pistol is empty, check, and double check.

As you carry concealed, make sure you are concealed. Face a wall (we hope) that would stop a bullet!

I like a strong side holster, quite far back, get your first and final grip on your pistol, lift it clear of the holster, immediately lock your wrist and forearm, level with the floor, drive the nose of the pistol at the place you want the shot to fire.

You smack that gun fist into the waiting support hand, which wraps around that pistol hand, drive that pistol to your eye, it should stop as your sights line up.

The trigger is being compressed as it travels to that stop moving point!

The trigger releases as it stops! Your master eye sees the point you want to shoot! The sights should be between your master eye, and your aiming point!

Start slow, cock, holster, draw and click, over and over. The Punch Draw.

This is better shown live, but I hope you can get the gist of it.

Last edited by Brit; April 24, 2013 at 04:40 AM.
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Old April 26, 2013, 05:27 PM   #14
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I can shamefully admit to not intentionally doing any such drill in over 20 years...

Brent
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Old April 27, 2013, 11:42 AM   #15
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stress drills can be fun useful and quite humbling to some shooters. Try sprinting 100yards then see how well you can keeping in the 10 ring @ 21 feet.

BUUUUT (always one) This may sound dumb or unnecessary but I feel obligated to post it.

With drills that induce stress I always ALWAYS say that you NEED a friend with you @ the range. Your methods could be perfect but accidents happen. A trip, stumble, anticipation or even equipment failure could result in an unintended discharge and or a serious possibly life threatening injury. If your a few hundred yards from your car or miles away from town even the wait for the ambulance could prove fatal. So having another person there is a great idea.

I suppose that could go for any range trip but I feel that it particularly applies to this sort of practice.
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Old April 27, 2013, 07:03 PM   #16
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Being physically tired/fatigued is only one kind of stress. Also, when your body dumps a bunch of adrenaline, it won't be exactly the kind of stress you're going to be dealing with. I'm not saying it's not useful to try shooting fatigued, but there are other ways you can create stress.

Shoot with a friend, and put some money on who does better. Not necessarily a lot of money, but enough that you don't want to loose.
Or if you don't have a friend to shoot with you can agree to pay yourself for every good shot and charge yourself for every bad shot. And, the money you walk away with is all you can spend on beer for the week

It's amazing how much harder it is when something's actually riding on it.
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Last edited by dayman; April 27, 2013 at 07:11 PM.
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Old May 1, 2013, 09:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Being physically tired/fatigued is only one kind of stress.
Brother, that is the truth. One thing our pistol combat instructor hammered into our heads is that in the stress of a split-second, face to face shootout - by that, I mean when a bad guy is SUDDENLY pointing his cocked gun at you and you have a fraction of a second to either put him down or die - all kinds of things will happen:

- you will get tunnel vision
- your active thinking will basically shut down; you will be unable to mentally process what you see and hear
- you will stop breathing
- your body will stiffen
- and most important: whatever action you take will depend on your training. Whatever you've taught yourself to do instantly, automatically, reflexively, without thinking, if anything... is what you'll do during that fraction of a second. Or you will die.

This physical and mental state can NOT be simulated by playing paintball, shooting in competition, running 400 meters, blasting holes in a paper target, watching Rambo movies, or by reading posts on internet forums.
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Old May 19, 2013, 10:50 AM   #18
Jeff #111
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Ruark
Quote:
One thing our pistol combat instructor hammered into our heads is that in the stress of a split-second, face to face shootout - by that, I mean when a bad guy is SUDDENLY pointing his cocked gun at you and you have a fraction of a second to either put him down or die - all kinds of things will happen:

- you will get tunnel vision
- your active thinking will basically shut down; you will be unable to mentally process what you see and hear
- you will stop breathing
- your body will stiffen
- and most important: whatever action you take will depend on your training. Whatever you've taught yourself to do instantly, automatically, reflexively, without thinking, if anything... is what you'll do during that fraction of a second. Or you will die.

This physical and mental state can NOT be simulated by playing paintball, shooting in competition, running 400 meters, blasting holes in a paper target, watching Rambo movies, or by reading posts on internet forums.
I agree, but what do you suggest? You have to do some type of training if you want to have some type of preparedness. I know that there are those who are big advocates for playing scenarios through un your head. It's my understanding that the old Japanese Samurai did that as a training method. But that might fall under watching movies or reading posts on the Internet.
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Old May 19, 2013, 10:37 PM   #19
RBid
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Throw humility out of the window. Here's one for a static/"stand still" range.

1. Run a sheet with multiple targets on it out to 5-7 yards. Number each target.

2. pick any in-place exercise that you can do in a small space. jumping jacks or push ups are great, sprinting in place works, etc.

3. bang out a few seconds of the above exercise

4. step up to the left most side of your lane, shoot target 1 once

5. side step to the right most side of your lane, shoot target 1 a second time

6. side step back to the left most side of your lane, shoot target 2 once

7. side step to the right most side of your lane, shoot target 2 a second time


This is just an example, but it gets you elevated heart rate, target cycling, some degree of controlled move + shoot, and works within the rules of most ranges. There are a lot of ways to adapt, of course. Those big sheets with 5 targets are awesome for this. You can make bigger transitions (target 1 to target 5, target 5 to target 2, etc), and can add the element of a friend calling out targets for you to transition to.
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Old May 22, 2013, 02:46 AM   #20
Terry A
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Quote:
April 15, 2013, 03:24 PM #2
sfmedic
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Join Date: December 2, 2012
Location: Currently Erbil, Iraq
Posts: 105 All the time - shooting moving communicating is key to tactical marksmanship.

sprint and shoots are a whole other animal. once the shooter gets back to the firing line keep them moving - getting behind cover , moving in depth, linear lanes, barricade shooting, live fire obstacle course runs you name it.

its a bad bad bad habit to get into by standing on a static firing line all day punching paper. you miss all the tactical aspects that come into play during a real gunfight.

and its a problem if you can shoot stressed. Its not as easy as you think to do the following tasks while your gasping for breath

identifying and moving to cover
high wall negotiations
low wall negotiations
pieing corners
moving in L , T, X hallways
quick peeks
negotiating windows
shooting from the prone, kneeling
recovering from being knocked down and shooting
egress from a structure
shooting from vehicles
shooting from a seated position
shooting while covering another
weapons retention drills
weak hand/offhand/injured hand drills
mag changes on the move / from behind cover
moving in depth / linear movement
etc etc etc

IMHO too many people think that putting massive quantities of bullets through tiny little holes in paper prepares them for a real life street encounter.......
This ^^^^^ gets my vote for the post of the year so far. Great advice that will seriously increase your abilities and confidence.

Nobody is "too skilled" that they don't need to keep training.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, THE most fun I've ever had was all the training we did as assaulters. We had an old, 7 story tall abandoned hospital that was going to be torn down. We used it for almost an entire year. Our entry team would assault that building over and over, in many different ways and areas after the other group would set up targets in different places. And then visa-versa. ALL the shooting was with live ammo and it was something I'll never forget. We had to buy ammo on our own because we shot beyond what was allotted us for training. So worth it!

Everything that sfmedic posted was tried and tweeked there with the exception of shooting from vehicles. We would actually go up there off duty with our personal assault rifles and "search" the entire building just for practice. Actually shooting at doors, walls, etc really shows what's cover and what's just concealment. Most of what you'd encounter in an average home is just concealment.

Just one example....we set up steel targets outside a door way where a team would typically be stacked and ready to make a dynamic entry. Then we opened up from inside the room shooting thru the walls near the door and "ting-ting-ting-ting-ting-ting-ting". EVERYTHING we did was brain stormed for what worked, what didn't, what could be done better, etc.

So much better than just paper punching.

On the other hand, our 2 snipers loved what they did and had little desire to practice assaulting structures. And the guys going inside had very little desire to be sniper trained.

Too many great stories to ever be able to share. That was such an important part of my life and I'm very grateful that I was able to experience what we did. I'll always miss it.

I appreciate all the good suggestions and thoughts that were shared by so many in this thread. It's great to hear all the ways others keep their skills sharp.
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Old May 22, 2013, 03:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
April 27, 2013, 12:42 PM #15
Venom1956
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Posts: 2,286 stress drills can be fun useful and quite humbling to some shooters. Try sprinting 100yards then see how well you can keeping in the 10 ring @ 21 feet.

BUUUUT (always one) This may sound dumb or unnecessary but I feel obligated to post it.

With drills that induce stress I always ALWAYS say that you NEED a friend with you @ the range. Your methods could be perfect but accidents happen. A trip, stumble, anticipation or even equipment failure could result in an unintended discharge and or a serious possibly life threatening injury. If your a few hundred yards from your car or miles away from town even the wait for the ambulance could prove fatal. So having another person there is a great idea.

I suppose that could go for any range trip but I feel that it particularly applies to this sort of practice.
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Venom,
You post great advice. It's nice to practice alone but it's better to have a training partner.

I have a humbling story to share. On one occasion, we were training for a week at an old and abandoned drag racing course. Turning cones were set up making it like a slalom course. We were instructed to drive thru the course as fast as possible and upong reaching the end, we were to exit the car and run 50 yards. The instructions were to double tap the two steel targets and then HOLSTER and SNAP the pistol back in place while you run another 50 yards and then engage two more steel targets. The re-holstering was MANDATORY. Not something I'd advise in a real life scenario.

Since this was a timed event, I wanted to make up some time because I'm not a good driver and other guys got good times because they were driving faster than others. So genius me thought I'd just holster my pistol and sprint without snapping it in to shave off maybe a second for the snap and unsnap.

When I got to the first set of targets, I went to engage and my holster was empty! My Sig was laying on the ground way back toward the car! I laughed so hard and just started walking back to get my gun. But I couldn't stop laughing at how stupid that was of me! My buddies were too far away to see what I was laughing about and when I told them what I did, we all cracked up. But EVERYBODY snapped tight, as instructed, before they ran to their targets.

On the slim chance I was doing that on my own and it discharged upon hitting the ground, I could have been in a jam, depending on where the bullet went.
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Old May 22, 2013, 08:57 PM   #22
Ben Dover
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Stress drills are different depending on one's occupation and age.

At 73, My stress is relieved by the comforting feeling of the SIG P226 under my arm when out, or the fairly sophisticated alarm system at home, backed up by my Benelli M-4 beside my bed.

My daughter's bedroon door is solid and dead bolted as wel. Her revolver is in her nightstand and she is quite skilled in it's use. That too is a great stress reliever!
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