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Old May 5, 2013, 09:44 AM   #1
777funk
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Shooting Lead makes me have to clean VERY often to keep functioning. Normal?

I've noticed that with factory WWB 230gr FMJ ammo, I can shoot quite a few rounds without cleaning and it continues to function great.

With the Lead reloads I'm getting jams if I don't clean every 50 rounds or so. I wonder why this is? I know dirt in the chamber can prevent good function.

One thing I noticed is that there is some stray lube at times on the SWC cone. I also wonder if maybe melted lube is ending up in the chamber. I'm really not sure why I'm having to clean so often.
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Old May 5, 2013, 10:15 AM   #2
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WOW, that sounds like very soft lead or very poor lube. I shoot hundreds of cast ACP at each range setting and never have a problem, not even with lube.
Are you picking up lead on the feed ramp?
Who’s lead bullets are you using? Whoever you’re using I would change because that’s not normal.
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Old May 5, 2013, 10:35 AM   #3
oldpapps
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777funk,

I see you have posted three questions in order, pressure signs, limited/no accuracy and early cleaning.

I see you are loading 230 grain lead round nose. What is concerning me is how hot are you loading.

The .45 ACP is a big fat smashing bullet. It doesn't NEED to be ripping out at fantastic velocities. Extreme velocities are major contributors to leading, high pressures, slick bores and loss of accuracy.

Please check and verify your loading information. Compare a few different loading books/makers web sites. ALWAYS start at the 'starting' load and work to a loading that performs as you desire. Remember, 'MAX LOAD' is not a challenge.

Always error on the side of safety,

OSOK
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Old May 5, 2013, 11:09 AM   #4
BigTex308
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Re: Shooting Lead makes me have to clean VERY often to keep functioning. Normal?

I regularly shoot 300+ rounds of cast bullets in a single outing. No problems here.


I load them pretty light.


The bullets have a brinell hardness of 15-18.





Ike
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Old May 5, 2013, 11:22 AM   #5
g.willikers
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250 plus rounds of 200 grain swc at uspsa major is a common day at the range for mine.
And the barrel and chamber are barely in need of cleaning.
Something ain't right.
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Old May 5, 2013, 04:35 PM   #6
777funk
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It actually looks just a little dirty in the barrel near the chamber (just the start of the rifling). But the chamber is pretty sooty looking. This seems to be the time I start getting jams.
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Old May 5, 2013, 04:50 PM   #7
g.willikers
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How do the reloads feel as compared to the factory loads?
Are they noticeably weaker in recoil?
If so, maybe the brass is not expanding as it should, and powder is coming back into the chamber around the cases.
More than likely the cure is find another source of reloaded ammo, if you want to continue using reloads.
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Old May 5, 2013, 05:21 PM   #8
777funk
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The 200gr SWC are a little weaker than 230gr factory and the case ejects about the same distance. The 230gr RN Lead kick harder and cases travel further.

I had some that only ejected 3' or so (factory goes around 6') and brought the charge back up a bit. I may try even a little less powder and see if I can get the brass to just drop out by my feet.
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Old May 5, 2013, 06:25 PM   #9
Cascade1911
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Are you by any chance using Shooters Choice "Lead Remover"?
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Old May 5, 2013, 06:37 PM   #10
777funk
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No just hoppes #9 when done. I'm not noticing leading really. Seems like the rifling looks like it did before I started shooting cast.

I'm using 4gr Hodgdon TiteWad (no official load data for anything but 12GA). It's a fast burning powder. I seat the SWC to 1.230" and any longer and it won't sit in the chamber all the way. Also if I do push it in, it gets stuck in there and I have to knock it out with a dowel rod. If I shoot it, it will eject but the next one gets stuck and the slide doesn't close all the way. So... that's how I arived at 1.230" as a good OAL. Seems to cycle very well until it gets a little dirty.

My case neck is about 0.467" after the crimp (Lee crimp and seat in one). If I don't crimp, they also get stuck in the chamber.
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Old May 5, 2013, 06:45 PM   #11
m&p45acp10+1
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Sounds like tight chamber, and dirty powder.
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Old May 5, 2013, 07:23 PM   #12
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I only ask because I started having problems with leading, seemed to only get worse no matter what I did. It got to the point where after 40-50 rounds I started getting failure to feed. When I thought back it seemed that the increase in leading coincided with the beginning of my using the aforementioned "Lead Remover". I discontinued using it and leading has returned to it's previous relatively minor levels.

If it were me I'd try a more common powder such as Bullseye or W231/ HP38 and see if the problem goes away.
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Old May 5, 2013, 07:28 PM   #13
m&p45acp10+1
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Some Break Free CLP, and a bore snake might be helpful until you can find a better choice for powder.
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Old May 6, 2013, 08:03 AM   #14
BigD_in_FL
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Quote:
I'm using 4gr Hodgdon TiteWad (no official load data for anything but 12GA).
Might this be the problem? Why aren't you using an established recipe with the proper components?
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Old May 6, 2013, 08:42 AM   #15
Nathan
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So, I see a couple of keys here. There is a reason why Titewad has no 45 ACP data....I would guess you found it. Reloading is not magic, but it helps to not get too far away from established recipes.

The key here is soot in the chamber. That means your case is not expanding and sealing the chamber. So, getting a good cast powder like Titegroup, Universal, AA#5, 231, etc ought to be on your short list.

I find Weapon's Shield to be a fine lead remover. Just alternate bore cleaner of your choice and WS until it is clean. A brush speeds things up.
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Old May 6, 2013, 12:22 PM   #16
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Slow Down

From reviewing this and the two other threads started by the OP I have gathered enough information to advise some additional reading, understanding and experience. The subject of all three posts are interrelated and most likely attributable to one cause.

I believe your 200 LSWCs are most likely a good round for your gun and the fault lies in the powder selection and charge weight you are using with the 230 LRN.

First and foremost, you should not be loading the 200 LSWC and 230 LRN at the same charge weight of 4g Titewad. If you are, and all indications from your posts lead me to that, PLEASE note the 4g Titewad with a 230 LRN is over published max of 3.3g!

Second, contrary to some remarks here, you can find Titewad load recommendations from the manufacturer at their website: http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

I understand times are tight and we are all using what we can to reload, but there are other time tested powders that might be better and have more load data, therefore easier for you to use if you can find them. (Think: Unique, Clays Universal, HP38)

My recommendation is to ensure you are working up your loads using published data, starting at the minimum. With that you will most certainly see improvement in with the subjects of all three of your posts: accuracy with a 230 LRN that is currently being pushed too hard, reduced/no leading by not running them over pressure, and concerns about signs of overpressure in a 45 ACP, which is generally a low pressure round.
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Old May 6, 2013, 10:23 PM   #17
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I don't know. I clean each of my guns every 5-10,000 rounds or once a year for all my pistols -- lead or jacketed. Of course, if I switch bullets, I inspect the barrels until I am sure that there is little to no leading and make sure it doesn't start.
I have never had a gun not function due to powder soot and I have never seen any difference in anything except the barrel between jacketed and lead.
I have many custom accurized guns and they don't mind getting dirty.
I have had the trigger on my CZ75s get "gritty" and cleaned them.
I think too many people use too much lube. I keep reading in magazines about having to run 1911s "wet," but I have never found that to be true.
My Colt National Match 1911 from the late '60s must have at least 50,000 rounds through and it is still accurate, tight, and functionally great (blue is worn though after so many years of shooting and, at one point, carrying). I have never run any gun "wet."
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Old May 7, 2013, 07:42 AM   #18
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first question

First, what is your specific launch platform?
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