The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 12, 2013, 01:20 AM   #1
LED
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2013
Location: The Heartland
Posts: 174
1911 triggers

Which production 1911 has the best trigger, in your experience?
LED is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 05:59 AM   #2
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,405
There is enough variation from one gun to the next within even a single make and model that this question really has no answer.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 06:14 AM   #3
thedudeabides
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2012
Posts: 990
If you're looking for a PRODUCTION 1911 with a good trigger pull out of the box, get a TRP or a Valor, or a 70 series Colt.

70 will be better than 80.

A quality 1911 pistolsmith can also perform a trigger job to improve a crappy pull.
thedudeabides is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 07:01 AM   #4
1911Tuner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills
Posts: 605
Triggered

It varies. Sometimes a lot. I've handled stock Norincos that came out of the box with quite good triggers that broke clean at 5-6 pounds...which is perfectly adequate for a duty pistol. I've handled Loaded Springfields and O1991 Colts with rough and/or creepy triggers that...although a bit bothersome for deliberate slow-fire...could be managed well after a little familiarization and practice.

Of course, my personal preferences seem to differ a little from the norm on what constitutes a "good" trigger. I don't care for anything lighter than 5 pounds on a carry pistol, and I'm just as happy with 6 as long as it doesn't creep and breaks clean.
__________________
If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck
1911Tuner is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 11:07 AM   #5
LED
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2013
Location: The Heartland
Posts: 174
To make it more specific:

The most crisp "glass" break
The best pull weight (not necessarily the lightest)
The least amount of creep OR the smoothest, no grind take-up

I appreciate your opinions given here. Subjective is no problem. It's what I am looking for! Not the scholarly research.
LED is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 11:27 AM   #6
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 2,476
There are so many aftermarket parts and good gunsmiths around who could work the trigger on your 1911 for you I wouldn't even bother on this holy grail quest for the best production trigger. If a smooth as glass trigger is what you are after then get some work done on it.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 11:45 AM   #7
LED
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2013
Location: The Heartland
Posts: 174
This is about your out-of-the-box favorite. Factory trigger. No smithing.

And please, if you don't have an answer, or you don't like the OP... Don't huff and puff here. Go to another forum, or start your own. Gentlemen.
LED is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 12:18 PM   #8
Recoiljunky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2011
Location: Jupiter, florida
Posts: 225
A Dan Wesson pm7 in 10mm by far you would think they were 3000$ guns if ya didn't look at the price tag
Recoiljunky is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 12:30 PM   #9
geetarman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,746
I have two Dan Wessons, two Smith and Wessons, two Rugers and one Sig.

You would be hard pressed to fault the triggers on any of them. None of mine have been touched and I am happy with them the way they are. They are all very good.

The overall build quality DOES vary quite a bit. The triggers though, are pretty darn good.
__________________
Geetarman

Carpe Cerveza
geetarman is online now  
Old May 12, 2013, 12:38 PM   #10
LED
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2013
Location: The Heartland
Posts: 174
recoiljunky

how much was the pm7? I can't remember seeing that model. another name maybe?
LED is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 12:42 PM   #11
LED
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2013
Location: The Heartland
Posts: 174
geetarman

the sigs 1911 are fine, i even took armorers course. but the trigger is a little on the heavy side, and you know it when you try a kimber side-by-side. all sigs have a tactical bias except a few high end competition guns.
given that you like all your 1911 can you tell the difference in trigger pull with your eyes closed?
LED is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 12:51 PM   #12
45Gunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 1,728
I like my 1911 triggers at 3 lbs. Everyone of my guns gets a trip to my favorite gunsmith (1911 master gunsmith) and he fits the slide to the frame, fits the barrel bushing, and smooths out the trigger. And all this for a small amount of money. I never have to wonder if I bought the right gun because he makes it right for me.
__________________
45Gunner
May the Schwartz Be With You.
NRA Instructor
NRA Life Member
45Gunner is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 12:53 PM   #13
WVsig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2010
Location: KY
Posts: 3,041
The reality is that the trigger on a production gun is going to vary from one gun to another even within the same model and make. Take 10 RIAs or 10 Colts or 10 Dan Wessons and there will be a variance between the 10 within each brand. It might be dramatic it might barely be noticeable but we are talking about production guns so it is to be expected.

From there you have to consider what I want or like in a trigger is not necessarily what you want in a trigger. I might like a 3lb trigger on my range/paper punching gun but a 5lb trigger on my defense 1911. You are asking for a universal answer to a 100% subjective question. Even with your statements about what you like in a trigger with the limited description you have provided meaningful replies are impossible.

You are asking a question which cannot be answered without referencing particular guns and a particular shooter. 10,000 words on the subject will not change the subjectivity of the question and therefore will not lead to a meaningful answer. IMHO YMMV
__________________
"Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all..." Sam from Ronin
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. -Frank Zappa
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.-Frank Zappa

Last edited by WVsig; May 12, 2013 at 03:57 PM.
WVsig is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 01:38 PM   #14
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,182
1911 triggers

My Colt Series 70 and Colt Gold Cup

Also, my SIG 1911 had an amazing trigger on it too.

I haven't tried anything like a Les Baer or Dan Wesson so I don't know about those. I'd imagine they'd be amazing.
Constantine is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 02:01 PM   #15
Recoiljunky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2011
Location: Jupiter, florida
Posts: 225
Led I paid 1050 for it a couple years ago
Recoiljunky is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 02:23 PM   #16
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by LED
To make it more specific:

The most crisp "glass" break
The best pull weight (not necessarily the lightest)
The least amount of creep OR the smoothest, no grind take-up
See post #2.

This question cannot be answered for you. These are mass-produced firearms, not custom-built pieces of the gunsmith's art. I test pistols, primarily 1911s. Within any single brand, and any single model within that brand, you'll find trigger pull weights out of the box vary by as much as 2 pounds (which is a lot if the ideal is somewhere around 4 to 5 pounds), and the amount of creep and/or "grit" also varies widely from one pistol to the next.

Pick four pistol, two each from two manufacturers. Pistol #1 from manufacturer A may be perceptibly cleaner and lighter than pistol #1 from manufacturer B. Now check pistol #2 from each manufacturer and manufacturer B's pistol might be cleaner and crisper.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 02:29 PM   #17
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 2,476
Quote:
And please, if you don't have an answer, or you don't like the OP... Don't huff and puff here. Go to another forum, or start your own. Gentlemen.
Excuse me? I was aiming to be helpful with my response, and the short answer is if you want a smooth as glass trigger like you stated it's unlikely you will get it from any factory gun these days. As others mentioned you could line up 10 guns that came off the factory line that day and the trigger can differ dramatically from one gun to the next. I stand by what I said, if you are looking for a smooth as glass trigger your easiest and best bet is to take it to a qualified gunsmith and have the trigger worked on. Regardless of how good someone might think the trigger on their gun is it can always benefit from a good trigger job from a competent gunsmith. You seem to be the one huffing and puffing over my sincere answer, who are you to tell me to get lost and go to another forum?

Last edited by Dragline45; May 12, 2013 at 02:36 PM.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 02:31 PM   #18
geetarman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,746
Quote:
given that you like all your 1911 can you tell the difference in trigger pull with your eyes closed?
I really cannot tell.
__________________
Geetarman

Carpe Cerveza
geetarman is online now  
Old May 12, 2013, 02:34 PM   #19
Microgunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2006
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,929
The only 1911 I've ever owned whose trigger I thought was poor enough to require smithing was a Colt Series 80.
Their firing pin block makes the trigger very creepy.
All others, and there has been many, have been acceptably.
__________________
Proud NRA Patron Member
Microgunner is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 02:42 PM   #20
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Microgunner
Their firing pin block makes the trigger very creepy.
No, it doesn't. The relationship between the hammer, sear and trigger is exactly the same regardless of whether a Colt 1911 has the firing pin block or doesn't. The firing pin safety does not and cannot make the trigger "creepy."

I own a couple of Colts with the Series 80 firing pin safety and the triggers are not at all creepy. The one I bought new hasn't been touched and the trigger is excellent -- good enough that I didn't feel it needed to be touched, and I'm persnickety about my triggers.

You may have gotten a pistol with a creepy trigger, but that's just due to manufacturing variations, as we have been discussing in this thread. It is not due to the firing pin safety. Creep in a 1911 is purely a function of hammer hook depth and sear tip configuration.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 03:05 PM   #21
Microgunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2006
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
No, it doesn't. The relationship between the hammer, sear and trigger is exactly the same regardless of whether a Colt 1911 has the firing pin block or doesn't. The firing pin safety does not and cannot make the trigger "creepy."


Well, my Series 80 Gold Cup NM had a creepy trigger which was greatly improved by master gunsmith Norm Youngblood of Tampa Florida, who blamed the creepy trigger on the Series 80 firing pin block.
He said more movement was designed into the trigger to insure the block was deactivated. He reduced the amount of movement which, theoretically, reduced reliability. But since this pistol was target only it was a worthwhile tradeout.
I'll take his word over your's seeing I know him.
__________________
Proud NRA Patron Member

Last edited by Microgunner; May 12, 2013 at 03:30 PM.
Microgunner is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 04:01 PM   #22
WVsig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2010
Location: KY
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
Quote:
This is about your out-of-the-box favorite. Factory trigger. No smithing.

And please, if you don't have an answer, or you don't like the OP... Don't huff and puff here. Go to another forum, or start your own. Gentlemen.
It is sad when a newbie does not understand when people are trying to help them? Many experienced knowledgeable members have tried to pointed out that the question that you have asked is poorly worded or cannot be meaningfully answered. Those who are telling you that there is no answer are helping you more than those who are naming a pistol.

I could say Colt, I could say Dan Wesson, I could say Sig, I could say RIA but the reality is that no matter what I say will not translate to the gun you are going to purchase unless you are buying the guns out of my safe.

Why lash out at the people in the thread who are actually offering sound advice.....
__________________
"Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all..." Sam from Ronin
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. -Frank Zappa
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.-Frank Zappa
WVsig is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 04:25 PM   #23
LED
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2013
Location: The Heartland
Posts: 174
VWig and the similar, you have too much time on your hands.

Intersting that the Colt Gold Cup is mentioned often. Mine was a Trophy which is 80 series. It was better than the Para, and about as good as the SIG the latter also having the firing pin block. This is all first hand. I did consider a 70 series Colt but never liked the GI sights many came with. Now there is a Wiley Clapp 70 series with a gold bead front, which looks like holy grail to me. Problem is its a lot of money. My R1 enhanced has a f/o front which to me is next best. The trigger is same as the Gold Cup, but $750 delivered. (GC was $1000 cash, and the Clapp is $1700 if I remember correctly)
The Dan Wesson I dry fired at the shop had a better trigger than the R1 but twice the price tag.
I leave in the area where 1 gunsmith populates maybe a thousand square miles. And I just don't like sending my guns away unless broken.
LED is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 04:59 PM   #24
1911Tuner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills
Posts: 605
Creepy

Quote:
Well, my Series 80 Gold Cup NM had a creepy trigger which was greatly improved by master gunsmith Norm Youngblood of Tampa Florida, who blamed the creepy trigger on the Series 80 firing pin block.
Just goes to show that even master gunsmiths can be mistaken.

Quote:
He said more movement was designed into the trigger to insure the block was deactivated.
I think that he's confusing creep with pretravel...or the distance that the trigger moves before it contacts the disconnect. A little pretravel is a good thing. I like about .050 inch or so.

Creep is defined as detectable trigger movement as the sear moves away from the hammer hooks, and it's all due to the sear/hammer hook interface. Creep can be smooth or rough and it can be short or long...depending on how long the hammer hooks are, and whether there's an escape angle on the backside of the sear crown...and how far into the crown the cut is made.

Some trigger smiths even create a bit of smooth creep for certain applications known as a "rollout" break.

Creep has nothing to do with the Series 80 parts.
__________________
If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck
1911Tuner is offline  
Old May 12, 2013, 05:09 PM   #25
LED
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2013
Location: The Heartland
Posts: 174
If you were to buy a 1911 within $1500 or so, shooting for sports, with no gunsmith in sight, and trigger is king, which model would you check out first?
LED is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13238 seconds with 9 queries