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Old May 6, 2013, 06:27 PM   #26
Pucketson
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The so called gun he is said to have printed looks like a zip gun to me

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Old May 6, 2013, 06:57 PM   #27
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^Similar idea, but I think a zip gun is considered something more improvised, re-purposing things to make a firearm. This is something that is actually manufactured to be a firearm in the first place.

These people have also produced an AR-15 lower that works for a while. Which is a little bit beyond what anyone considers a zip-gun.
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Old May 6, 2013, 07:14 PM   #28
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Dave, to answer your question I believe it was just the receiver assembly that was made of plastic, as well as the magazine. I believe feed ramps, guide rods, springs, and everything else were standard.
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Old May 6, 2013, 08:09 PM   #29
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Interestingly, the most recent 10-year renewal of UFA88 sunsets in December of this year. A new all-plastic gun seems like the perfect basis for renewing the Act.
There's already a push underway to renew it, and this will just pour grease on the fire.

Even in .22, I can't imagine the rifling will hold up long, and the overall lifespan of the gun probably isn't all that encouraging.
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Old May 6, 2013, 10:06 PM   #30
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In The Line of Fire(1993)....

The action drama is In The Line Of Fire(1993), www.imfdb.org .

A local newscaster made the same point; www.myfoxorlando.com , a few weeks ago.
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Old May 6, 2013, 10:47 PM   #31
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A number of you have questioned the ability for a plastic barrel to work properly. My first thought was the chamber in which the cartridge is held. They must be using custom casings which can withstand the sudden ignition of the power and direct the bullet down the barrel. Surely a plastic chamber would not provide enough support for a normal brass casing.
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Old May 6, 2013, 10:48 PM   #32
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By the way, here is CNN's report on the gun: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/06/te...html?hpt=te_t1

This technology could do for 3D printers, what **** did for video recorders. Everybody will want one.
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Old May 6, 2013, 11:05 PM   #33
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I have t admit my interest lies more in the 3d machine that made it than the gun after reading the article.
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Old May 7, 2013, 03:40 AM   #34
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I think it's very interesting that the trigger was designed so flimsily, and that photos were released of the gun with the trigger snapped off. It makes me wonder how fast they are learning.

It seems like a short leap to a harmonica gun. The Dardick Tround also comes to mind.
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Old May 7, 2013, 04:39 AM   #35
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An article I read today stated that he successfully fired a .380 cartridge in it, but then destroyed the gun with a barrel change and firing of a 5.7x28 (about 30k PSI over the .380 for maximum pressures). I find the concept very interesting, but I can't imagine a world where I'd risk firing one myself. I'll keep my steel guns, thank you very much.
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Old May 7, 2013, 05:03 AM   #36
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Quote:
Quote:
1. The original Liberator was designed to be used only few times in order to get real firearms from the occupying powers during WWII.

2. It was never really used in any theater.

3. It was quite small and concealable. This isn't.
I think it was more hoped that the original Liberator was only used a few times in order to procure better guns. Structurally, they could be used lots of times.

It was used in both theaters, though on a limited basis (~50,000 units) including being used in primarily Greece and China.
I believe it was said that it took longer to reload the Liberator than it did to produce the thing.

The Brits dropped loads of them over France for the French resistance to find and was intended to be used once to kill a German and take his rifle, and the ability to be reloaded was not something high on the priority list, the main priorities were to be small, very cheap, and very easy to manufacture.
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Old May 7, 2013, 09:14 AM   #37
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I can't see anything beyond renewing the already existing laws, which- though I admit I haven't read them- would seem to make sense. We all have an interest in firearms that can't be detected with metal detectors being illegal until technology produces another widely-available means to do so.

But haven't non-metallic- either plastic, or ceramic- been produced before outside of the 3D printing? IOW, is it the plastic firearm that's "new", or just the relative ease of producing it?
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Old May 7, 2013, 05:43 PM   #38
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Technology Will Advance

It will move from a single shot firearm, to a revolver, and eventually someone will design a semi-auto version as the plastic technology develops.

This ought to create a little nervous twitch in the gun grabber's belly.
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Old May 7, 2013, 07:32 PM   #39
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Considering the advances in polymers, I doubt it will be all that long before a reliable and durable barrel is made in some form of "plastic". Of course, it would be easy enough to avoid the issue for now with some form of sleeve, inside of the barrel.
This is almost deja vu all over again! (Thank you, Yogi Berra)

In the 1950s a company named Armalite built an automatic rifle called the AR10 with a thin steel barrel inside some kind of carbon-fiber like material.

In testing, it blew the end of the barrel out. So they went to all steel, and were asked to go for a cartridge called the 5.56 in the AR15 and, well, you know the rest of the story...

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Old May 8, 2013, 02:36 AM   #40
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Sure. The Winchester M59 had fiberglass wrapped barrels.
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Old May 8, 2013, 10:35 AM   #41
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The 3D printing technology is still a baby, one the general public starts consuming 3D printers the technology will grow I am sure, "plastics" and other materials will develop more.
This guy is just doing a couple of concept guns technology usually take many people working on idea. I think it could grow into something.

I hate plastic on guns, but I do find this pretty fascinating.
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Old May 8, 2013, 11:20 AM   #42
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ABS printed gun Quiz of the day:

1) What is the lowest combustion temperature of any generally available gun powder?
2) What is the melting temperature of ABS plastic?
3) What happens when the combustion temperature is greater than the melting point of the container confining it?


Answers:
1) ~ 3000 F
2) 221 F
3) don't be there

Unless there is magic going on with the ABS (assumed ) to be used for the Liberator, I don't think I'd want to be there for the first shot, and certainly for the second shot.

What did I miss?
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Old May 8, 2013, 12:05 PM   #43
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Legos bricks are made from ABS, LOL. Think of the possibilities. You could add a Legotinny rail. Accessories could be snapped on and off at will.
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Old May 8, 2013, 12:18 PM   #44
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txaz
1) What is the lowest combustion temperature of any generally available gun powder?
2) What is the melting temperature of ABS plastic?
3) What happens when the combustion temperature is greater than the melting point of the container confining it?


Answers:
1) ~ 3000 F
2) 221 F
3) don't be there
Technically, ABS plastic doesn't have a "melting temperature", it breaks down but does not "melt".

What is the melting point of steel?

1500F

Less than half of your stated powder temperature... take note that your barrel doesn't get anywhere remotely close to 1,500, over even 200F, under any sort of normal conditions.

The thing is, 3D printers don't necessarily use ABS plastic, either. They can also use epoxy resins and virtually any material that can be "powdered", including steel.

So, the fact that they've printed this gun out of plastic is really secondary to the fact that they've PRINTED a GUN. The technology will continue to advance and, eventually, will be available to the common man in a much more sophisticated form.
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Old May 8, 2013, 12:34 PM   #45
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Unless there is magic going on with the ABS (assumed ) to be used for the Liberator, I don't think I'd want to be there for the first shot, and certainly for the second shot.
Here ya go, video of it being fired. I believe that was a .380.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=drPz6n6UXQY

As Brian said, if the combustion temp of powder vs the melting point of the components were an issue, there's no go in use today that would be safe. Will the gun eventually wear out? You bet. I can't imagine the rifling (if it even has rifling?) would last too long, and I imagine parts in the action and barrel would eventually warp. But as long as it's over-built enough, I doubt it would catastrophically fail after just one round.

Anyway, this is just a proof of concept. They built a pistol almost completely out of 3D printed plastic (with only a common nail as the only required, additional part, as a firing pin) that fired without failing. That's very impressive. Imagine what we'll see when this process gets more refined and the materials get better.
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Old May 8, 2013, 01:05 PM   #46
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Good points gaerek, but I believe the significant difference in temperatures is a much greater risk, as the therms (BTU's) are also there with enough rounds (ala an M2 barrel will melt and droop with enough continuous firing). My guess is it will take significantly fewer rounds to affect the ABS barrel.

In reactionary governments it might result in new legislation outlawing 3D printing. In other it may result in more ineffective and misguided laws.
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Old May 8, 2013, 03:29 PM   #47
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I don't see myself owning a "printed gun" in the next 30 years. Maybe a gun with some printed components, but not one where the barrel, firing pin, cylinder, bolt, and springs and hard-wear items were printed. I think this will just go the way of the Dardick and Gyrojet.

Maybe I'll risk getting spanked by one of the Mods in 10 years and re-open this thread just to say...."I told you so".
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Old May 8, 2013, 06:38 PM   #48
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Gun no....but the thought of printed magazines makes me giggle.

From the book "Jedburghs", the Liberator was never the great sucess it was intended to be, but what the heck, nifty name.

From what I've read, the BATFE is already starting to get antsy about this thing.
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Old May 8, 2013, 08:32 PM   #49
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Very interesting topic. I don't see these as being a viable weapons system for some time if ever. People the world over have been making 'zip' guns from pipes, springs etc for a long time. Those lucky enough to have access to machine shops can make whatever they want. I don't see a widespread love of a plastic printed weapon at this time. Perhaps as tech evolves, but then, laws are sure to be enacted that prohibit three D printed weapons. This whole thing could blow up in the face of the RKBA community. If making your own gun is prohibited because of the fear of these new guns, one could forfeit the legal right to make a gun for themselves from any material/manufacturing process.
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Old May 8, 2013, 09:27 PM   #50
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Post 36 & 48; M3A1 "Grease Gun"...

Posts; #36 & 48 bring up points that I made near the start of the topic.

As widely known, these cheap Libertator firearms which I think fired one/01 .45acp 230gr milspec bullet were never meant to stop any Nazi tanks or swarms of SS troops.

To me, they were almost like the M3A1 Grease Gun .45acp SMGs cranked out by the 1,000s and handed out like candy bars. I heard they were not very popular in SE Asia and were later filtered down to NG/US Army Reserve units in CONUS. My E-6/SSG Army recruiter was in Armor and told me they had a few in the 1980s in Europe(Germany) as a 2nd gun/back up. He said the Grease Guns functioned but were never accurate or ideal for regular combat use.

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