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Old May 1, 2013, 09:47 AM   #1
ChaseReynolds
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What an INSULT!

Now, I don't have my CCW, but I do live fire exercises, holster drills, and dry fires. I hate mainstream media trying to make it seem that people with their CCWs are delusional. Out of all the people that applied for the experiment THEY chose the six that would best fit their propaganda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s
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Old May 1, 2013, 09:53 AM   #2
Glenn E. Meyer
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This is an old story, BTW. I'll let this run a bit for those who might have missed it. However, can we do more than just complain?

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Old May 1, 2013, 10:05 AM   #3
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The video is a good reminder that if someone is going to carry a gun, he/she needs training and practice, and that the training needs to cover more than being able to stand in place and hit a stationary target.
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Old May 1, 2013, 10:14 AM   #4
ChaseReynolds
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I agree, that to the people that do carry, this will put a thing or two in perspective. But this was not done to motivate Sheepdogs to keep training.
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Old May 1, 2013, 10:29 AM   #5
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I can't get to youtube right now. Is this the one that Diane Sawyer (I think it was) did on CCWs in a lecture hall with an active shooter?
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Old May 1, 2013, 10:30 AM   #6
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Rigged test where the gun man knew where the student was and the student deliberately given a shirt purposely designed to make a good draw impossible. This video proves nothing except the liberal media has no scruples and will never give a fair and balanced report on this topic. We beat this video to death when it first came out but it should be discussed again for the new crowd on this forum.
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Old May 1, 2013, 10:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Grump
Rigged test where the gun man knew where the student was and the student deliberately given a shirt purposely designed to make a good draw impossible.
Sure sounds like the same one. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I seem to recall that the active shooter: (1) is the same person who gave the CCW to the student; and (2) knew where the student was.
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Old May 1, 2013, 10:41 AM   #8
Siouxlynn
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conceled carry

I do have a CCW. I am 65 years old and female -- gasp! I made the decision to carry a long time ago. I was raised in a hunting house hold and was a member of the junior NRA as soon as I was old enough. I try to educate people to the fact that a gun is just a tool. Like a shovel or an axe. Once you are trained to use it that is all it is, a tool. It is sad that the main stream media has forgotten how they got the freedom to blab the way they do. Several of my ancestors died so they could tell me I am a paranoid delusional because I know how to defend myself. I guess controversy sell air time.
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Old May 1, 2013, 12:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Is this the one that Diane Sawyer (I think it was) did on CCWs in a lecture hall with an active shooter?
Yep, with the full cooperation of the Violence Policy Center.

It's a prime example of a politically-motivated piece, using a cherry-picked experimental group who are pretty much set up to fail. Most gun folks saw through it at the time, and most non-gun folks largely ignored it.
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Old May 1, 2013, 02:43 PM   #10
Dalek
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My my my. Lies and deception on the part of the Media about firearms and CCW holders? Say it ain't so! Sorry, no offense to any here but, this is rather like saying a dog barked at me.

Face it. As a dear friend of mine who happens to be homosexual and a gun owner, put it to me...

"I can leave the closet for being Gay but have to go back in for being a gun owner."

We gun folks are one of the groups fully approved for outbursts of steady bigotry.
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Old May 2, 2013, 01:06 AM   #11
DaleA
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Quote:
We gun folks are one of the groups fully approved for outbursts of steady bigotry.
It does seem that way in a lot of the media.

IMhO we share the burden with smokers and fat folk. However I take comfort in knowing us fat folk are a SIZABLE majority in this country.
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Old May 2, 2013, 01:30 AM   #12
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us fat folk are a SIZABLE majority in this country
Oh I see what you did there...
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Old May 2, 2013, 10:17 AM   #13
doofus47
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Quote:
Quote:
us fat folk are a SIZABLE majority in this country
Oh I see what you did there...
Ok, who's going to say it? Alright I will "Of course it was a guy named 'Chowder' who noticed that first....


Yeah that clip is a bit old. It's also a bit made up, aka "a controlled experiment." Only 5 or 6 people know I carry. I'll take my chances that the AS has xray vision and makes me the first target. Conversely, just by unlucky chance, I need to consider that I could be the first target of any AS scenario. Soo, I take this as a hint that training is always a must.
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Old May 2, 2013, 11:01 AM   #14
SPEMack618
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Furthermore, there is no law that says as a fellow with a CCW I have to be the first one to stand up an engage.

To quote my old platoon sergeant

"Before you go off trying to win fire superiority, make sure you got cover and concealment down first."
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Old May 2, 2013, 12:26 PM   #15
doingMach1
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What an INSULT!

I think a major issue that has not been mentioned, and was twisted in the video, is that although the handling and reaction wasn't perfect, and the gun carrier/good Samaritans would have been shot/killed in most instances [in the video], they shot the perpetrator. They might have saved many lives. If in the process of saving the lives of my family, I shoot and kill an armed intruder, and through my adrenaline surged mistakes, manage to get myself killed as well, I'll take that as win. Still better than my family joining me in death and the intruder surviving.
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Old May 2, 2013, 01:35 PM   #16
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First time I have seen this YouTube

Yes, for sure, pure propaganda. The intruder had no confusion & was well prepared on who to shoot. Thanks for posting.

I have a CHL, & I'll admit that I don't always carry. I don't practice my CC draw much either. Now I'm wide open for criticism. But I have a number of issue I haven't overcome yet, like best CC holster, best clothing the right handgun itself. These are all good topics for other threads.

The way I see it, the point about CC is that the intruder doesn't know what to expect either. Even if I carried a gun in an ankle holster & it took me a few seconds to get behind something to get it out, isn't that better than nothing? If I was a bad guy & somebody was shooting back at me, I would definitely be distracted & confused a bit. As a matter of fact, there are a few stories about mass shooters getting startled just seeing someone else with a gun & quickly decide it's time for their own suicide shot. Good deal.

Having an elite handgun combat fighter around would be great, but sometimes, just the presence of a gun in good hands is enough to stop a crime. But that is hardly ever reported or popularized.

JIMHO...

...bug
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Old May 3, 2013, 08:22 AM   #17
Dashunde
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The good news is that by looking that the 35000+ thumbs down votes that its a big propaganda fail.
Even anti gun folks can see how these people are set-up to fail with the long shirt and wearing gloves.
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Old May 3, 2013, 05:47 PM   #18
gstone
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What an INSLUT

Let's try another scenario. Have all the students dressed as they usually dress on campus and arm one (or more) with the handgun BUT do not tell the perp who is armed. Then let the perp enter the classroom and figure out who is armed before he is taken out.
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Old May 3, 2013, 05:55 PM   #19
Merad
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Of all the things to complain about in that video you chose the people they used in the scenario? I don't think that anyone would be successful with the odds stacked that highly against them.
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Old May 3, 2013, 06:10 PM   #20
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the media would have a point of view in mind, and then go build a story to fit that point of view, and call it news?

don't even watch them anymore.
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Old May 3, 2013, 09:16 PM   #21
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What a crock . All the ccw guys were in the same place ,front row center and the shooter new it and went straight for them . As for the claim you need to train , I think thats spot on .

I'm not really sure what the reporter was trying to get across in the story . Was she saying , even if you have a gun that does not mean you will be able to fight off an attack ? It sounded like she was saying . It would be hard to win in that situation so why bother . If the point was the former I would agree but that does not mean you don't even try . I say just ask Susan Gratia-Hupp how she would feel about this .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgrIsuO5PLc She watched people die all around her And could do nothing about it cus she was not aloud to have her gun with her . Just because you are in the area of a shooting does not mean you will be the first to get shot as the report seems to imply . It appears she would have been able to take the guy out .

Last edited by Metal god; May 4, 2013 at 03:56 AM.
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Old May 4, 2013, 02:18 AM   #22
Buzzcook
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The experiment may have been flawed, but it did expose problems with lack of training.

One thing to remember is that the student was the second target of the gunman not the first. There was time to draw and fire for the last couple of students.

The point remains, just having a gun is not enough.
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Old May 4, 2013, 04:12 AM   #23
Metal god
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I believe the video shows the experiment's flaws when that last guy takes cover never moves and yet the gunman goes right at him even though there are plenty of other targets . It was clear the gunman got his intended target the teacher then turned his attention to his next "intended" target the ccw guy . I don't care who you are if your the intended target of a surprise attack your odds of surviving it will go down quite a bit .

I'd like to see that exact same experiment and the only difference being the gunman does not know who has the ccw or where they are seated . Oh lets also not have the gunman be a professional firearms instructor or cop and just your average bad guy like the average god guy they are putting him up against . If they did that I would bet the ccw guy would not look so inept . They say real world it would be different . well then lets see a real world scenario
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Old May 4, 2013, 12:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
It's a prime example of a politically-motivated piece, using a cherry-picked experimental group who are pretty much set up to fail.
Sounds very much like the precise definition of "propaganda", doesn't it?

From the online Merriam-Webster Dictionary: (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda)
Quote:
Definition of PROPAGANDA
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause
Judge for yourself.



ETA:
Quote:
I'd like to see that exact same experiment and the only difference being the gunman does not know who has the ccw or where they are seated .
Well, let's take the "experiment to the other extreme. Let's do it with a classroom where all the attendees are armed and the BG/Shooter is not privy to whom, if anyone, is armed.

BP

Last edited by Beepy; May 4, 2013 at 12:47 PM.
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:33 AM   #25
Chowder
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Ok, who's going to say it? Alright I will "Of course it was a guy named 'Chowder' who noticed that first....
This truly made me laugh out load haha. I got the nickname Chowder in college in PA. I was the only kid from New England so "new England Clam Chowder" or just chowder became my name. A decade later the name still sticks... It also helps that I'm somewhat portly and love chowder haha.
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