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Old May 2, 2013, 07:08 PM   #1
Blindstitch
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Need 30-30 with boattail info.

Like many others right now that can't get the exact supplies they need or want i'm trying to make a round that I can't find info for.

I have a box of Speer Boat tails in 150 grains, cci large rifle primers and IMR 4064 powder and I would like to use it to make some target or fun rounds for my 30-30 winchester.

Yes I know that due to the tube design that this combo is taboo but since I have a scope on the gun and it doesn't permit easy ejection I tend to use it as a single shot. As a single shot I won't run into tube magazine problems.

Can anyone help with data. I had some data but for the life of me I can't find it.
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Old May 2, 2013, 07:18 PM   #2
GeauxTide
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Looking at Loaddata, there are loads with 150 spitzer bullets. Starts at 29 and goes to 32. There are some loads that go to 34 with round nose bullets, so remember, the spitzers have more bearing surface and will give more pressure. I'd split the difference at 30.
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Old May 2, 2013, 10:36 PM   #3
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Is it really true?

My question has always been:
The .30-30 has a rim and the the bullets DO NOT line up with the primer. Has there ever been a M94 Winchester .30-30 that has blown the magazine tube?
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Old May 3, 2013, 03:51 AM   #4
Blindstitch
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I'm pretty sure it only has to happen once to get the warning.

I was reading a book (I think the ABC's of Reloading) and it was talking about a kid working in an ammunition making factory. Short on details a bit but I believe for some reason new primers were getting placed in a bucket and then this kid would take them to the next step. I guess he was skipping down the road as the primmers bounced around and then boom. Could have swore it said something like they only found one foot. Everything else was toast.

Hornaday makes a rubber nosed spitzer for 30-30 so there has to be a need for this style of bullet.
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar178.htm

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Old May 3, 2013, 06:03 AM   #5
Bart B.
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GeauxTide, those spitzers having more bearing surface will give less pressure if their jacket's are softer, thinner, shaped slightly different or slightly smaller in diameter than others.

I doubt the difference will be measureable anyway. Have you measured the pressure difference, or are you only guessing?
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Old May 3, 2013, 07:34 AM   #6
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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If your looking for a recipe to reload those 150 gr. PSP. Just go to the IMR Powder Web site look up their 30-30 load listing. Use the application for the 150 gr. FP bullet with 4064 usage. Then you have to be concerned about COL so your cartridge functions thru the receiver correctly. Just make sure its bullet tip does not exceed the suggested measurement listed for a 150gr Flat point. I would suggest that you drop your powder charge down 2 grs. or so to start with. Then work up to its sweet spot. If your bullet has a cannelure line don't worry about it. If you make your cartridges up correctly you should be able to load one at a time into its tube and lever them up to the chamber or battery position.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

S/S

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Old May 3, 2013, 07:54 AM   #7
dahermit
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Quote:
Is it really true?
My question has always been:
The .30-30 has a rim and the the bullets DO NOT line up with the primer. Has there ever been a M94 Winchester .30-30 that has blown the magazine tube?
I understand what you are saying. Logically inasmuch as the rim is the only thing in contact with the inside of the tube, and the rim is not likely to support and orient the round straight ahead (nose should droop down from the primer in front of it), the question should be; Is the "droop" enough so that the pointed bullet does not contact the primer in front of it? I do not know, but remember their were tube magazines on some old rifles that had twisting grooves impressed into them to off-set the bullets from the primer in front of it. As for a Winchester '94 magazine tube, I guess we will have to section one to see if the bullet noses contact the primers. Anyone have a spare '94 we can butcher?
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Old May 3, 2013, 02:10 PM   #8
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I was on the hodgdon site but maybe I game up to quickly. The info it shows for 150 grain is..

150 GR. SIE FN----IMR 4064---.308"---2.550"
Min. 31.0---2106---33,300 CUP
Max. 33.3---2236---36,200 CUP

The 160 grain takes 28.7--30.5

Just to call it safe I think I'll start with 30 grains.

The C.O.L. of the dummy I made is 2.7 which is .2 longer than a round nose but it's all tapered. Either way it will be a single shot to be safe.
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Old May 3, 2013, 03:55 PM   #9
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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0.02'th. longer than called for. I don't think you'll have a problem with jamming. My Winchesters are kind of finicky in there charges. Always seem to like a recipe's Minimum side.Your idea of putting a pointed bullet onto a 30-30 brass is not that unusual. As I have a Savage 1899 lever rifle and one of my friends has a Savage 340 bolt action. Both allow this type cartridge (PSP) bullets to be used. Just the tube fed rifle manufactures frown on such activity for their rifles. Otherwise I shoot PSP out of my 30-30 Savage lever all the time. And just so you know why Hodgdon Winchester and IMR all three powders are listed on one Web site. Hodgdon bought the two other company's. I would say Hodgdon use to be considered a mediocre player in comparison with all the other powder manufactures a few years ago here in the States. Not no more. Now their the BIG dog of those still in business here.
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Old May 3, 2013, 11:23 PM   #10
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dahermit: why would you need a flat tube? Just put two cartridges down nose to head on a flat surface...
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Old May 4, 2013, 01:11 AM   #11
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About 25 years ago a gunsmith at a factory authorized repair center told me they get a few tube kabooms a year. Yes it happens. They are rare. So are lottery jackpots and lightning strikes.... but they do happen too. Not all tube kabooms are sent back for repair and far a I know the number of people who admit online they did something that stupid is zero. More happen than we know.

Explanation he gave me was the rounds first move forward in the tube and compress the spring(really tube moves back). .... nothing bad happens.....the spring slaps the rounds back against hard metal.... no spring behind the bullets.... bad happens.... bad is most likely to happen with two rounds in the tube... can't happen with one.... less likely with more rounds because the spring is stiffer.

Nix the lay on a flat surface theory. Lots of commotion happens during recoil and all bets are off as to where the tip is after the forward and return trip.
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Old May 4, 2013, 07:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
dahermit: why would you need a flat tube? Just put two cartridges down nose to head on a flat surface...
I am not convince that would be indicative of what happens in a magazine tube with pressure applied by the magazine spring and its plug pressing on the nose of the first cartridge and the little retainer holding the last cartridge against the spring pressure. A flat surface does not have those factors in play. I would want it tested in a clear plastic tube, with a magazine spring assembly, and a cartridge stop, at least.
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Old May 4, 2013, 08:02 PM   #13
Blindstitch
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Sounds like a test is in order for the Mythbusters.
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Old May 4, 2013, 09:12 PM   #14
GeauxTide
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Thanks for the question, Bart

Quote:
GeauxTide, those spitzers having more bearing surface will give less pressure if their jacket's are softer, thinner, shaped slightly different or slightly smaller in diameter than others. I doubt the difference will be measureable anyway. Have you measured the pressure difference, or are you only guessing?
I'd be willing to guess that Hornady or Nosler (for example) use the same jacket material and 308 diameter in their spitzers as their 30-30s, with the exception of the bonded lines. Then, it's no guessing that a longer bearing surface would give more pressure.
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Old May 5, 2013, 04:32 PM   #15
Bart B.
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Is the increase in pressure any more than what would be outside the normal peak pressure spread in .30-30 cases anyway? Peak pressure's spec'd at about 38,000 CUP +/- 2,000 CUP across a lot of ammo.
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Old May 5, 2013, 09:47 PM   #16
Tom Matiska
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Bigger issue re> pressure is case volume due to seating depth. Notice the FTX has more below the waterline than the conventional flat base in the pic above. More above the waterline also, which is why Hornaday says to trim .010 less than SAAMI max length.
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