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Old May 1, 2013, 01:26 PM   #1
Alabama Shooter
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Shotgun to the Face of Unarmed Man - Proper

This short video is pretty amazing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...-orleans-video

Who:

- Could have done that?

- Would have done that?

- Would have done something different?


We spend a lot of time focused on firearms for defense often forgetting the most important weapon of all.
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Old May 1, 2013, 03:07 PM   #2
MLeake
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The robber helped by getting way too close.

A lot of people could have done that, due to the robber's poor tactics. Most probably would not have tried.

Main error I noted on the victim's part was that he did not really move his body much, and relied too much on his hands. In this instance, it worked, but his percentages would have been better if he had moved off the X and closed on the BG while deflecting/grabbing with his hand(s). Still, since it worked, in this instance his percentage was 100%, so I am only critiquing and not criticizing.
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Old May 1, 2013, 04:38 PM   #3
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Right, he certainly did not get off the X, but he did very effectively disarm the goblin.
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Old May 1, 2013, 04:42 PM   #4
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He's lucky he didn't get his head blown off. Both of them.
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Old May 1, 2013, 04:56 PM   #5
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
We spend a lot of time focused on firearms for defense often forgetting the most important weapon of all.
Right! Not being armed or not having access to your own gun does not mean that you have to be defenseless.

The sweep to get the muzzle out of his face, I would argue, was a gut reaction. I certainly think a lot of people would have done that. What is surprising is that it turned into disarming the bad guy who apparently didn't have a decent hold on the shotgun. So that aspect was pure luck. The obvious defense for the person with the long gun that has the muzzle grabbed is to pull back. This helps align the gun with the person holding it by the muzzle (especially if one-handed), and then you have a shot.

I think what you had there was an inexperienced robber and definitely one that was not highly determined, still a very deadly threat, but not highly determined. The robber gave up, basically, at the first sign of loss of control.

Low marks on situational awareness before AND after the shotgun was pumped.
High marks on remaining cool
High marks on taking advantage of the robber's mistakes
High marks on getting lucky
Low marks on chasing after the robber with poor control of the shotgun (because apparently you can't readily control the shotgun for use if you are also retaining your smart phone in the other hand)
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Old May 1, 2013, 06:51 PM   #6
raimius
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Free shotgun!

That looked like guts and luck to me. Would I have tried it? Maybe. There are a ton of variables. Could I have done the same? Sure, and I have practiced better ways of doing it.
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Old May 1, 2013, 07:22 PM   #7
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Well, apparently somewhere in the process, the victim did lose his phone. Not only that, but the robber had an accomplice.

http://www.wwl.com/pages/16209701.php

They robber(s) tried to negotiate for the shotgun by offering back the phone, but instead, the victim used the shotgun to break the rear window of their car.
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Old May 1, 2013, 07:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
They robber(s) tried to negotiate for the shotgun by offering back the phone
No success there eh?
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Old May 1, 2013, 09:36 PM   #9
shouldazagged
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High marks, so to speak, for being freaking nuts.

The risk he took was insane.
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Old May 3, 2013, 07:59 AM   #10
45_auto
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High marks, so to speak, for being freaking nuts.

The risk he took was insane.
Are you aware of the murder rate in the area he was in?

You believe that there would be LESS risk in trusting your life to a hopped-up street punk with a shotgun inches from your head?

Given the tactical situation he was in, I believe that he took the LESS risky option. It would have been different if the punk was further away.

Metro New Orleans murder map:

http://www.nola.com/crime/murders/
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Old May 3, 2013, 08:37 AM   #11
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He was on the 1900 block of Burgundy Street, so not really in a much more dangerous area than the French Quarter.
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Old May 3, 2013, 09:21 AM   #12
deepcreek
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The robber made a common mistake he used the gun like they do in the movies. Held high in your face, looks cool on TV but it is a huge tactical error.

If he would of had the gun at his waist and 10-15ft away he would be extremely hard to disarm without getting shot.
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Old May 3, 2013, 12:32 PM   #13
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My reaction would depend on what was being said. If it was ~"give me your wallet" I would have given the guy my wallet ($40 and a few calls to my banks isn't worth getting shot over), if it was ~"I'm going to kill you" I would have probably tried something.
Or that's my guess. Having never been in that situation I don't really know...

It does show the potential danger in getting in too close. You do loose a certain amount of the advantage a gun provides when the other person can grab it.
Had the BG stayed 5-6' back he'd probably still have his gun.
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Old May 3, 2013, 09:52 PM   #14
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The sweep to get the muzzle out of his face, I would argue, was a gut reaction. I certainly think a lot of people would have done that.
I think so too, and a lot of people may be successful even though the gun goes off. Steven Seagal's second movie, Hard to Kill illustrates this; as he sweeps the shotgun aside, it fires, narrowly missing his head, showing even an Aikido master is prone to the same dangers. Hollywood, yes, but at least one of his best.

Quote:
Free shotgun!
A true gun guy. Believe it or not, that was the first thing I thought as well.
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Old May 4, 2013, 01:01 AM   #15
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Free shotgun!
Finders keepers?
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Old May 4, 2013, 01:16 AM   #16
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I would probably do it, don't know if it would work, but all you have to do is move a combination of the gun and your head 4 inches and it won't hit you, and once you've grabbed the pointy end you've suddenly become much more dangerous than them - because you've taken away their weapon and you're on kill or be kill mode, and he was just trying to rob you, so not in the same ballpark as far as physical state.
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Old May 4, 2013, 01:17 AM   #17
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A true gun guy. Believe it or not, that was the first thing I thought as well.
My first thought too lol.
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Old May 4, 2013, 01:29 AM   #18
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Second thought...

Free stolen shotgun.
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Old May 4, 2013, 08:44 AM   #19
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Free shotgun?

It's a nice idea, but in the real world... the guy called the police, as he should have. The gun was used in a crime, and the police would've wanted it as evidence.
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Old May 4, 2013, 09:17 AM   #20
Alabama Shooter
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It's a nice idea, but in the real world... the guy called the police, as he should have. The gun was used in a crime, and the police would've wanted it as evidence.
I am pretty sure those comments were facetious. Even though the weapon had been handled I am sure if the police were interested it could have yielded some good evidence.
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Old May 4, 2013, 09:51 AM   #21
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He used a good move. It worked well for him, and perhaps he knew his limitations. It seems like too fast, like he did not really size up his opponent, but it worked.
A thief works on fear, on terror, on the victim being totally afraid, and when this one wasn't, he ran.
The guy was small and the thief looks bigger. But thieves are usually not too confident about what they do. They know it's wrong. They know it might not work.
But it sure did turn out to be a case of 'robbing the wrong guy.'
dc
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Old May 4, 2013, 12:58 PM   #22
scrubcedar
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This is an interesting video. I wonder if he had some training of some sort.

I used to teach that exact sweep, even to stepping into it, but the target was the opponents arm. You grabbed the wrist with your right hand, turned it clockwise, thereby turning the opponent away from you. The left hand came up and buckled the opponents elbow ending with them restrained with their hand behind their back in a pain hold. It was quite effective.
These were defense for healthcare provider classes so I'd be surprised if it was unique to them, but he did exactly as I would have taught it, except he got a gun instead of an arm.
It was our favorite move, it would let some 98lb nurse make some pretty hefty guys look silly if you were fast enough.
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Old May 4, 2013, 12:58 PM   #23
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Free stolen shotgun.
Not exactly. He was running after the guy to give it back.
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Old May 4, 2013, 01:30 PM   #24
SHE3PDOG
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While I understand the concern that the victim may have been taking a huge risk by his attempted disarm under the circumstances, he seemed to have a pretty good idea of what he was doing. He swept and grabbed the barrel while simultaneously clearing his body of the "danger zone". The part that really stands out to me though is after his defensive maneuver, while the bad guy is starting to run away, he moved quickly to a disarm by smartly placing his other hand as far back on the gun as he could before trying to pull it away from him. While this may have been a successful case of good instincts (or luck), he did very well under the pressure of having a gun to his face.

Edit: Also, free shotgun!
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Old May 4, 2013, 04:33 PM   #25
Double Naught Spy
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I don't really think the intent of the good guy was ever to disarm the bad guy. He simply moved the muzzle to a more safe direction in regard to his safety. At that point, the bad guy when into full retreat. And so then the good guy had a proverbial tiger by the tail. He could run with the bad guy or let go and give the bad guy a second chance.
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