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Old May 16, 2013, 07:20 AM   #1
Stuohn
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What model M&P 15

Ive been trading texts with a guy for about a week to trade for his Smith Wesson M&P15.

The problem is hes not sure what model it is. He's explained that the rifle has no foward assist or dust cover so this leads me to believe that its started as a Sport model. Then he explains that the barrel is stamped 5.56 1/7. Im assuming this means a 1:7 twist but, I thought the Sport had 5R rifling.

So first am I right about the markings?

Does the MP15 line of rifles even have a rifle with a 1:7 twist?

He told me he bought it new from Carters Country if this helps.
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Old May 16, 2013, 09:55 AM   #2
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If it has no forward assist or dust cover it's a definitely a Sport model. There are several M&P 15 models with 1:7 barrels, but they're the more tactical-oriented rifles.

All the Sport models I saw up until a few months ago had 5R 1:8 barrels, but the few I've seen since then have had regular 1:9 barrels.

I did a quick search and I found an announcement from a S&W rep on AR15.com regarding this change:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_551/2..._15_Sport.html

However, if you go to the S&W website, they don't even specify what type of barrel the Sport has, even though they do for all the other models.

If this guy truly has a Sport with a 1:7 barrel, then this is my guess as to what's going on: Ever since things went crazy in December, they're making the Sport with whatever barrels they have available. They probably ship most with 1:9 barrels, but they left that spec off of the listings for the Sport so they could change it on a whim based on barrel availability.
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Old May 16, 2013, 08:40 PM   #3
Justice06RR
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I bought a brand new M&P15 Sport last March 2013 and the barrel is clearly stamped 5.56NATO 1:9

I believe Smith and Wesson has changed the barrels from 1:8 twist 5R rifling to a standard 1:9 non-5R this year.

If it does not have the dust cover and forward assist, it is definitely the Sport Model. The seller might just be confused with the barrel twist.
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Old May 16, 2013, 10:40 PM   #4
2ndtimer
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Quote:
I bought a brand new M&P15 Sport last March 2013 and the barrel is clearly stamped 5.56NATO 1:9

I believe Smith and Wesson has changed the barrels from 1:8 twist 5R rifling to a standard 1:9 non-5R this year.

If it does not have the dust cover and forward assist, it is definitely the Sport Model. The seller might just be confused with the barrel twist.
Just curious, how does your new Sport with the 1 in 9" twist shoot? MY 1 in 8" 5R shoots lights out, even with 40 gr V-Max bullets.
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Old May 17, 2013, 09:07 PM   #5
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The only M&P I know of with a 1/7 twist is the TS. Most all others are 1/9 or 1/8. A factory Sport never had a 1/7 although it's the only one that comes without FA or dust cover. Sounds like someone modified or built that upper.
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Old May 17, 2013, 10:06 PM   #6
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The S@W line of ARs are pretty low end no matter which model . Colt, Daniel defense and BCM are way better quality of parts and build quality which makes them a better buy for the $$$$. I like to say S@W ars are bolt action quality metals and Colt , Daniel Defense and BCM are machine gun quality metal.
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Old May 17, 2013, 11:18 PM   #7
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Guess it doesn't make much difference then since no one is shooting machine guns anyway.
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Old May 18, 2013, 07:12 AM   #8
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I don't agree that the M&P models are low-end. They're just lower-priced. I've owned two, and I've never had failures to fire with them that weren't magazine-related, and they appear to have the normal accuracy of any AR-pattern rifle.
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Old May 18, 2013, 07:15 AM   #9
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On the other hand, I've personally witnessed a Colt Defense LLC M4 explode into pieces in the desert, so it really comes down to maintenance and your skill as a shooter. The reality as I understand it is that most guns outshoot their shooters.

Shooter's preference always comes into play, but if you're a terrible shooter with a DDM4V5 or any of the BCM models, you're still going to be a terrible shooter.

The M&P has never let me down, and I'm a huge fan of it. It's a tool. It doesn't have anything I don't need, and it shoots well.
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Old May 18, 2013, 01:47 PM   #10
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The S@W line of ARs are pretty low end no matter which model.
I strongly disagree. Every S&W AR I've seen or shot has been a very well-made, quality rifle. Whether it's a high-end one like the VTAC model, or a lower-end one like the Sport. And even the "low-end" Sport is a very good rifle, they just removed certain features in order to cut costs.
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Old May 18, 2013, 07:46 PM   #11
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I've certainly never felt like my M&P was a low-end rifle. It's just a tool. It does what I ask of it, which is hit what I point it at. It cycles reliably, it lends itself to the same degree of modification as any of the cool-guy brands out there, and it's pretty accurate. Everything's where I expected it to be coming from the Colt M4. It's a working gun.
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Old May 18, 2013, 08:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
The S@W line of ARs are pretty low end no matter which model . Colt, Daniel defense and BCM are way better quality of parts and build quality which makes them a better buy for the $$$$. I like to say S@W ars are bolt action quality metals and Colt , Daniel Defense and BCM are machine gun quality metal.
Sounds spoken by someone who over heard a conversation with the counter comando's and likes to play parrot.

Sorry, don't mean and disrespect but I would really love to see your data to back of this statement, consider almost all 4 brands source parts from a single source.

I have BCM's and I have owned and built anything from cheap AR's to my brand new BCM HSP Jack Carbine. My S&W shoots just as well as my Jack, and it was half the dollar amount. Like someone stated, we aren't firing full auto, and most of people never even fire suppressed, so really I don't care if you own a Bushmaster Carbon-15, most people will never run the gun long enough or hard enough to see a difference.

I don't mind brand loyalty, or paying a premium for a superior product, but I know what goes into them, not just brand loyalty. I will never own another Colt AR again because the last two I owned were probably my worst guns, and I even owned a Bushmaster Carbon-15 I got for $400 and ran it with a suppressor and it still fed better than my two Colts.

A lot more goes into an AR than the rollmark on the receiver, considering most of them use the same sourced receivers.
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Old May 18, 2013, 08:56 PM   #13
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A lot more goes into an AR than the rollmark on the receiver, considering most of them use the same sourced receivers.
I'm no gunsmith, but seems to me there's only so many ways to make 'em, and half of those are probably marketing gimmicks.
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Old May 18, 2013, 10:45 PM   #14
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There are different spec sheets, some better than others, some parts like anything better than others.

Really it comes down to the application of which the shooter needs.

Guys working with the gun for a living are going to want a higher end rifle, not because the others are bad, but because more quality parts will last longer, they aren't paying for the ammo they are shooting, so they are beating on the guns, running them into the ground, they want a longer life span, not necessarily performance.

Guys high into the competition circuit, same thing, running the gun hard, they are looking for dependable performance over a long span, and they are generally up on maintenance, tho in action shooting sports you will see some very high end guns jam generally due to weak springs.

Then you have 90% of the population buying AR's for nothing more than to have something interesting. The round counts stay low, the rifle gets dolled up and not abused.

I can take a brand new Mil-Spec DD or Colt or BCM than take a bottom of the barrel Carbon-15 by Bushmaster and run the same stage in a competition, I bet you the scores and times will be about the same, its dependent more on the shooters abilities then anything. The difference in the two rifles? One will PROBABLY start failing at 10k rounds as opposed to the other at 30k rounds. But right now you can't even find that much ammo to purchase.

I like high end AR's but I don't go around snubbing my nose to every other brand. I had a Stag that ate nothing but 1000's of steal cased rounds that never had an issue, they are also the only company to lifetime warranty their barrels, also their parent company CMT makes A LOT of AR parts for A LOT of different brands, including everyone's beloved Colt (both civi and Military versions.)
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Old May 18, 2013, 11:43 PM   #15
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Sorry, computers been broke for a couple days. I guess its a moot point because we couldn't reach a deal.

I did end up trading another guy for his AR today.

It has:

Stag lower w/ Colt LPK
PSA upper w/ 1:7 barrel
BCM gunfighter charging handle
Firefield M4 Quad rail
MFT Battlelink stock
MFT Engage pistol grip
Blackhawk foregrip
Centerpoint Red dot
2 30rd Tapsco Mags
1 42rd Tapsco mag

I just realized that I have nothing Magpul (not even a PMag) on this AR. How does that even happen? Oh well I'm happy with it.
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Old May 19, 2013, 07:08 AM   #16
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Sure, I get that some ARs are just going to be built with higher-spec components than others, but other than the trigger group, I haven't found a lot of obvious differences between my M&P and the M4 I carried. Everything appears to be cut from the same cloth on both of them.

I've honestly never had an issue with mine and I've put thousands of rounds through each of the two I've owned since 2009.

There were a few magazine-caused FTFs, and one instance in which the bolt did not lock open on the last round (admittedly, I was using cheap ammo and perhaps it caused a short-stroke).

But I would absolutely trust my life to the M&P.
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Old May 19, 2013, 08:52 AM   #17
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Hope it works out for you, PSA uppers tend to have barrels made by FN so are quite good. What BCG do you have?

Anyway I'd be replacing that Tapco stuff with Magpul PMAGs or GI mags.

S&W is a step up from the comspec ARs that litter local gun stores but falls a little short of Spikes and PSA. Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense and a few others come even closer to a true military M4.

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Old May 19, 2013, 09:08 AM   #18
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Stuohn --

Congrats on the new AR. Magpuls are becoming available again. I've seen some of the Gen3 online at under $20. So still a little high. I also like the C-Products mags.

As for the SW M&P being substandard -- I'm certainly no expert but in their "regular" series, I'm only aware of a couple of supposedly inferior parts. The barrel is 4140 steel but that shouldn't matter unless you're shooting full auto or something close to it. I believe they have the AR-15 bolt carrier rather than the M-16 carrier some use; again probably no advantage unless shooting full auto.
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Old May 19, 2013, 10:05 AM   #19
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Not sure on the BCG (I assumed it came with the upper) is there anyway to tell?

Ya, Ill be getting some Pmags as soon as I find some deals but, I feel the Tapscos are good to go for range use.

There is a guy who wants to trade 100 rounds of my brass cased 45 for three of his NIW Gen 2 Pmags. What do y'all think

My main priorities (besides ammo and practice)

BUIS
Pmags
Different optic (Probably Nikon)

I was going to change the stock but, I actually like it more then the Magpul one Ive handled.
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Old May 19, 2013, 03:12 PM   #20
Quentin2
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Quote:
Not sure on the BCG (I assumed it came with the upper) is there anyway to tell?
The description should tell you. It's common for PSA uppers to not come with the BCG or charging handle.

Price can tell you as well, if the upper is under $500 I doubt you got a BCG since PSA sells them for around $190.


ETA:
Oops, you got a used AR, yeah it should have a BCG... I'd ask which one it is.
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Old May 19, 2013, 03:43 PM   #21
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There is a guy who wants to trade 100 rounds of my brass cased 45 for three of his NIW Gen 2 Pmags. What do y'all think
Not a terrible deal. Figure your .45 ammo is worth about .50 a round. So $50 in ammo for 3 PMAGs which can be had for around $15 each. That's about $45 if you can find it locally, around $50 shipped. Pretty even but PMAGS seem to be easier to find these days that .45.
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Old May 19, 2013, 04:47 PM   #22
Stuohn
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The guy got back to me and informed me that the BCG did come with the upper.

Ya, I was thinking the same thing about the Pmags its just I haven't seen ANY locally in awhile. As far as the .45 its actually easier to get then anything else lately (probably because I have a lot and don't need it). Before the all the non-sense started I stocked up on the 100rd value packs from walmart. I think I paid like 32.xx +tax for each box.(yes, I miss those)

Hes offering a choice of 3 Pmags or 3 Battlemags.
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Old May 19, 2013, 07:04 PM   #23
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Your AR will be fine, don't let people beat you up on it because theirs cost them twice as much.

Colt buys trigger mechs from CMT which also produces Stag lowers so your lower is of pretty rock solid decent.

As mentioned PSA uppers are fairly well made, I don't see you having any trouble at all.

People get caught up into brands, and I admit I favor BCM, but I don't try to put people down due to brand names, I have sold enough of them and returned enough of them with issues to know they all break down.

The beauty of the AR-15 is anyone with half a mind can assemble it in an hour on their kitchen table, if a part fails you, replace it.

I favor BCM because of a great product but more importantly great service. They are pleasant in emails and will answer any questions you have honestly, any non-firearm orders are at my door step in about 3 days tops, a lot of times with free goodies. my BCM HSP Jack Carbine I ordered the day Newtown happened, their CS department kept me updated every step of the way while it was being built. They get my nod for sure, but they aren't the only company that makes a well made product either.
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Old May 20, 2013, 01:16 PM   #24
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Hes offering a choice of 3 Pmags or 3 Battlemags.
PMAGS over Battlemags for me. No question.
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Old May 20, 2013, 11:23 PM   #25
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Congrats on your AR! Looks like you did well, the rifle looks great. I've never even seen or heard about that MFT stock but it looks badass.

I recommend a good sling, and definitely get those Pmags. Just for reference, Pmags are costing around $20 each right now so trading 3Pmags for your 45ammo is actually a good deal.

Enjoy it and happy shooting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndtimer
Just curious, how does your new Sport with the 1 in 9" twist shoot? MY 1 in 8" 5R shoots lights out, even with 40 gr V-Max bullets.
It shoots just fine, although I've not really shot it much (for the lack of ammo). Seems to be accurate enough but I haven't really shot it enough and at a good distance on a bench to tell the exact accuracy. I would say the M&P Sport is still an excellent rifle even with the 1:9 twist.
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