The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 29, 2013, 07:52 AM   #1
TX Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2010
Location: East Texas USA
Posts: 1,805
Rust in Bore Help 1903 A3 !

I am worried my Remington 1903 A3 has a strong Rifeling but I shined a flashlight down the muzzel and It has what looks like rust in the grooves near the muzzel. I have not fired corrosive amunition and It had an oiled patch run through it before storage. I ran a patch through the bore and It came out black, so I scrubbed It out with Shooters Choice, patched it till the patches came out clean, fired it three times. (it grouped tight) re cleaned it, shined the flashlight again and Its still there. What should I do ?
TX Hunter is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 07:54 AM   #2
sundog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 1999
Location: Green Country, OK
Posts: 731
Perhaps some JB Bore Paste would be beneficial.
__________________
safety first
sundog is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 08:45 AM   #3
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,489
Quote:
...patched it till the patches came out clean, fired it three times. (it grouped tight) ...

What should I do ?
Absolutely nothing. Keep it protected w/ BreakFree, WeaponShield or the like -- and don't mess with it further.
mehavey is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 08:51 AM   #4
Malamute
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2004
Location: Rocky Mts
Posts: 854
What you're seeing may be copper fouling, not rust. Copper looks orange-ish in a bore. Try a good copper removal cleaning, maybe using a special copper solvent, and follow their directions.
__________________
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Malamute is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 08:55 AM   #5
TX Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2010
Location: East Texas USA
Posts: 1,805
Mehavey

Curious why do You say this ? Is this active Rust or a discoloration ? When I remove the bolt and look through the Barrel into a light the bore looks shiney and the two groove Rifeling is very pronounced and new looking. But the discoloration has me worried.
TX Hunter is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 10:50 AM   #6
TX Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2010
Location: East Texas USA
Posts: 1,805
Malimute

You may be right, when I scrubbed the bore yesterday afternoon with a new bore brush and Shooters choice, I got some bluish tinting on the cotton patches. I used a good one piece coated cleaning rod to protect the bore and cleaned from the breach going through a nice pile of patches, still have that rusty red color though. Its a 1943 barrel on an unmolested 1903 A3 Remington. (my favorite Rifle)
TX Hunter is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 12:46 PM   #7
mehavey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,489
Quote:
...new bore brush and Shooters choice, I got some bluish tinting on the cotton patches.... still have that rusty red color though.
You will always get some "bluish tinting" because the Shooter's Choice is eating a bit of the bore brush as you use it.
Hence the "tint" when you patch it out.

Shove a thoroughly sopping wet patch through the bore, and drop it out the muzzle. Let things just soak for 20 minutes
then scrub a dry patch through to see if the blue is still there.

But in the end -- if the rifle loves shooting the way it is -- well, don't fix it further. Just protect it.
mehavey is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 02:52 PM   #8
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,595
agree with malamute. sounds like copper fouling. unless your patches are coming out brown then I don't think it's rust.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 03:13 PM   #9
TX Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2010
Location: East Texas USA
Posts: 1,805
Tahuna

No the first patch was black, then blue after shooting and brushing. It looked like surface rust in the groves, lands looked good . I figured it would have come out from cleaning and bullet friction. Now it just looks like oiled rust.
TX Hunter is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 03:49 PM   #10
50 shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2002
Location: SoCal PRK
Posts: 616
I know most will have a heart attack about this but... try a stainless steel bore brush if its bothering you that bad. Get some Boretech Eliminator, its a surfectant and will lift carbon, copper....

Stainless brushes are softer then barrel steel and won't hurt them, let the barrel soak for about 15 mins, scrub and then patch it out.
__________________
I see the world thru bloodshot eyes
Streets filled with blood from distant lies
The dogs of war never compromise,
No time for rearranging.
50 shooter is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 06:06 PM   #11
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,595
Quote:
I know most will have a heart attack about this but... try a stainless steel bore brush if its bothering you that bad. Get some Boretech Eliminator, its a surfectant and will lift carbon, copper....

Stainless brushes are softer then barrel steel and won't hurt them, let the barrel soak for about 15 mins, scrub and then patch it out.
clutches left arm...
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 06:12 PM   #12
the rifleer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2008
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 1,273
Shoot the rifle, that will clean out rust. Then clean it after you shoot it.
__________________
There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.
the rifleer is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 08:35 PM   #13
TX Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2010
Location: East Texas USA
Posts: 1,805
Thats exactly what I am going to do, shoot it ocasionaly then clean It like a friend instructed me. I have been letting this fine Rifle waiste away in a Gun Cabinet, and for what so someone can make a buck off it after I am dead and gone. No Sir I will enjoy it and the that Someone Someday can have whats left. Thanks for all the help fellows I apreciate it.
TX Hunter is offline  
Old April 30, 2013, 06:45 PM   #14
robmkivseries70
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2005
Location: free territory
Posts: 196
It's copper from the bullets or the bore brush. It's generally harmless and the rifle may shoot a bit better with it there. Don't sweat it!
robmkivseries70 is offline  
Old May 1, 2013, 04:58 PM   #15
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 4,787
Go easy.

I suggest you not use aggressive means to clean it.

A little copper wash hurts nothing.

The trick is "do no harm"

A LOT of harm has been done by "cleaning"

We went a long time with Hoppes #9,cloth patches,and an occasional bronze brush.

Now we have Bore Tec Eliminator,Wipe Out,etc.I think the Montana black nylon brushes work good with modern solvents.

For preservation,a light coat of RIG rust inhibitive grease is great in the bore,but develop a habit of always running a dry patch or two through the bore before shooting.

Grease in the bore can increase pressure or even act as an obstruction.
HiBC is offline  
Old May 1, 2013, 05:02 PM   #16
JD0x0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2013
Posts: 1,037
It's most likely copper fouling. Use a product that is meant to deal with copper fouling. IF it is rust, which I doubt it is, just shoot it out and then make sure to clean and oil the bore to prevent it from happening again.
JD0x0 is offline  
Old May 9, 2013, 10:02 PM   #17
tahoe2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2011
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 635
Shoot it !!

I have a 1941 German M98k with a badly corroded and rusted barrel, (it wasn't cared for very well, before me). I shoots fantastic, I have put 3 shots into 1" and 5 into 2 @ 100 with iron sights (Mojo rear).
When I clean the barrel; the patches (after brushing) keep coming out dirty grey, I can run 20 patches and they all come out the same, I have even cleaned it with a hot barrel, same thing.
I gave up getting upset about it, it shoots so good, I just clean it and accept it.
Maybe the rifling is tighter cause of the corrosion! ha ha !
tahoe2 is offline  
Old May 10, 2013, 06:26 AM   #18
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,923
A electrolysis tank well be the best way to clean your barrel. It can make nasty rusted, pitted bores look near new.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old May 11, 2013, 11:44 AM   #19
Ben Dover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2013
Location: High up in the Rocky Moun
Posts: 237
Unless it's actually pitting, a phosphor bronze brush, wrapped with bronze wool and wetted with light oil should remove it.

Since the A3 is a WW2 riflke, 0000 steel wool should also be safe.
__________________
The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower
Ben Dover is offline  
Old January 8, 2017, 07:41 PM   #20
Kolns
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2013
Location: Peoples Republic of MA
Posts: 3
Bore Rust Removal Success

To remove light rust from a Ruger Mini 30 stainless barrel bore I did the following
1. Cleaned barrel then de-greased
2. Cut a Scotch Brite red pad strip to fit into jag, about 3" long
3. Ran jag up and down barrel with short twisting strokes until pad was worn and very black
4. Repeated step 2 & 3 until rust was gone, took 5 times
5. Cleaned bore and chamber to remove Scotch Brite fragments w de greaser
6. Polished bore w Brasso
7. Degreased bore
8. Applied light coat of oil to bore

How rust formed is a mystery as I always carefully clean after firing and apply oil to bore afterwards
__________________
Kolns

Last edited by Kolns; January 9, 2017 at 12:34 AM.
Kolns is offline  
Old January 8, 2017, 09:25 PM   #21
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 4,787
I understand all this advice is well intentioned.
A lot of it is harmful.

An 03A3 is a prize!! The FIRST RULE is "Do no harm"

Please! No stainless steel brushes! No steelwool! NO Green Scotchbrite!!

Get a Montana black nylon brush. Get some 30 cal patches.And a good solvent.
Hoppes benchrest has mild copper removing power.
Bore-tec eliminator,wipe out,etc.are GOOD! But pick one and use it.DON"T mix solvents.(don't try one on top of the other)

Your bore should see wet patches,dry patches,a nylon brush,solvent,and preservative oil.IF you want to use a bronze brush,use it with Kroil penetrating oil. Copper solvents eat the brush.

Be advised,a brand new,unfired military barrel gets tossed in the black oxide or parkerize tank in manufacture.A parkerized barrel has a parkerized bore.

Parkerizing is a bit toothy.It will collect copper. It won't look shiny.

Even if it IS rust,what does it help to grind it out? It SHOOTS!!

An old trick for removing surface rust on the exterior is rubbing it with oil and a piece of COPPER!!

Jacketed bullets are as good a method as any to smooth rust.Remember bluing is smoothed over rust.

It would be really sad if the OP had a near new barrel and he ruined it by following BAD ADVICE!!

Just shoot it.

Kolns,this was a STAINLESS Mini-14 that rusted so bad you had to do all that? And you stored it with an oiled bore? You might check to see if a magnet sticks to the bullets of the ammo you are shooting.

Chlorinated hydrocarbons such as Brakleen,Carb cleaner,etc are BAD for stainless barrels.The 416 they use is typically sulphurized for machinability.The "degreaser" attacks the sulphur.Its a bad idea.

BEFORE you tell me I don't know what I am talking about,either search Scheumann Barrels,Documentation,Barrel cleaning,or just follow this link:

http://schuemann.com/Portals/0/Docum...l_Cleaning.pdf

The article you will find was written by Jim Borden,of Precision Shooting

Last edited by HiBC; January 8, 2017 at 09:45 PM.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 9, 2017, 12:54 AM   #22
Kolns
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2013
Location: Peoples Republic of MA
Posts: 3
Thanks HiBC, wish I had the Schuemann Barrels article prior to my bore rust removal exercise. My degreaser was isopropyl alchol. Bullets are non magnetic, copper jacketed fiocchi.
__________________
Kolns
Kolns is offline  
Old January 9, 2017, 01:41 AM   #23
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 7,595
rust would have shot out, or cleaned out with the unburnt powder. likely what you are seeing is copper fouling. it doesn't hurt anything unless you have a huge amount of it which is difficult unless you're hot loading your own ammo.

EDIT: haha, zombie thread, one where I gave the exact same advice 3 years ago.. at least I'm consistent.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
tahunua001 is offline  
Old January 9, 2017, 01:26 PM   #24
P5 Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2005
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 1,552
Yep, that is copper fouling not rust.
Butch's Bore Shine is a more aggressive copper remover than the Hoppes Bench Rest. But a bit of fouling is at times desirable. A couple of fouling shots and most bench rest guys then go for record.
P5 Guy is offline  
Old January 9, 2017, 01:59 PM   #25
50 shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2002
Location: SoCal PRK
Posts: 616
I saw the strangest Garand ever this past weekend at a gunshow, it was frankengarand! Someone grafted M1A gas parts to the barrel and a roller onto the charging handle!

The action worked flawlessly by hand, myself and another were looking at it. It was a Winchester Garand that had been modified.

If you don't think the 1903 can fire fast, think again. Germans thought that Army units were firing full auto weapons at them. Turns out that they were single loading rounds with the mag cutout feature on. Once they ran out of rounds in their hands they used the rounds in their mags before reloading again. I bet if you put two shooters side by side, one with a 1903 and the other with a Garand. The 1903 shooter could get 15 rounds off faster then a Garand shooter could do 16.

This would be a contest of speed, not the goofy military film showing the 1903 gunner fumbling with his rifle while the Garand shooter is blasting away.
__________________
I see the world thru bloodshot eyes
Streets filled with blood from distant lies
The dogs of war never compromise,
No time for rearranging.
50 shooter is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.23659 seconds with 7 queries