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Old April 30, 2013, 08:38 AM   #51
breakingcontact
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Per the title, when the "S" hits the fan...won't be any ammo left to be found or stores open to buy it in.

So I vote 22LR.
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Old April 30, 2013, 08:39 AM   #52
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Probably depends on your definition of "SHTF". Civil war, martial law, anarchy, there will be no ammo for sale at walmart. But there will be lots of bullets.

Most places that experience SHTF low paid police and military help themselves to armories to supplement their low paycheck. I am sure you could buy a crate of 7.62x39 in Syria or Somalia but 7mm might be tough to find.
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Old April 30, 2013, 09:59 AM   #53
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This is what the OP meant by SHTF:
Quote:
I've been thinking I would like a good all around rifle that I would be able to get ammo for when panic buying is in full swing .
The other stuff like:
Quote:
Civil war, martial law, anarchy
These are topics that aren't discussed for very long before a moderator closes the post because if you read the FAQ these topics aren't allowed. So while the OP used the term SHTF he didn't talk about anything other than the current situation in terms of buying ammunition and that is what has allowed the thread to stay open. If we digress into other things this will thread will be killed PDQ.
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Old April 30, 2013, 10:11 AM   #54
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Yes, it will. We don't do SHTF/TEOTWAWKI/ETC threads. However, as long as the topic sticks to the firearms or firearm accessories at issue, it can stay open.

To my mind, an immensely popular caliber (like 9mm) means that in times of plenty, there will be just that: plenty. However, in times of high demand, you have to remember that there will be lots of folks clamoring for 9mm ammo.
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Old April 30, 2013, 10:49 AM   #55
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Quote:
So while the OP used the term SHTF he didn't talk about anything other than the current situation in terms of buying ammunition and that is what has allowed the thread to stay open. If we digress into other things this will thread will be killed PDQ.
Bad on me for half reading his post and jumping in.

I don't like to have odd calibers, so for me, I have to prepare for when ammo supplies get tight by buying beforehand or suffer through the hard times.

243, 260, 270, 30-30, 30 06, 7mm 08 and 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R have been available locally here.
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Old April 30, 2013, 10:53 AM   #56
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Quote:
These are topics that aren't discussed for very long before a moderator closes the post because if you read the FAQ these topics aren't allowed. So while the OP used the term SHTF he didn't talk about anything other than the current situation in terms of buying ammunition and that is what has allowed the thread to stay open. If we digress into other things this will thread will be killed PDQ.
My bad, I guess I didn't read close enough and didn't realize that "SHTF" can also refer to empty shelves at Walmart.
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Old April 30, 2013, 10:54 AM   #57
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I don't think it does, deepcreek. I'm guessing that I'm the guy that didn't read the OP closely enough.
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Old April 30, 2013, 12:17 PM   #58
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In a TRUE economic crisis/catastrophe, the currency will be either devalued to the point of worthlessness or so rare as to be nearly unobtainable and hoarded. What might happen then is the emergence of a barter/gray market economy, where more or less fungible commidities (such as ammunition) might become the currency of the day. The latter scenario isn't as far-fetched as some might think - until the rise of national banking - this is exactly how a great amount of rural economic systems worked.

Thus, your ammo hoard will have value to the extent that others are looking for it. It would stand to reason that in such a situation you'd want to have largish stocks of the most commonly chambered and useful cartridges - things like .22LR, .308, 30-30, 30-06 and the like.
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Old May 1, 2013, 01:32 AM   #59
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Well I had to work late today and was all ready to post what I've thought about today . Then I saw the last few post so maybe I address those first .

Quote:
Probably depends on your definition of "SHTF". Civil war, martial law, anarchy, there will be no ammo
Yes the SHTF may have not been the best thing to put in the title and for that I'm sorry . That being said I believe this thread and what it's about has been very clear from the start .

Now to what I've been wanting to saw to you all . This thread has been so informative and thought provoking . I want to thank you all

Especially :

steveNChunter: for the thought of staying in the same cartridge family and necking up and down .

Brian Pfleuger and Taylorce1 for the whole changing barrels and all that entailed . Very good stuff .

Lets not forget the Mods that let this thread continue

So this is where I'm at in my whole thought process now . I'm going to stay in the 308 family cus I already have two rifles chambered in 308 . I will most likely pick up another rifle chambered in 243 SS finish and a extra barrel . Not sure of the caliber for the extra barrel but leaning towards 7mm-08 . This should give me a clear direction for reloading equipment and supply's . I will probably start buying 243 and 7mm bullets before I even have either of the two rifles .

Any and all comments pro or con on the direction I'm going , are still welcome .

Thanks again
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Last edited by Metal god; May 1, 2013 at 07:28 PM.
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Old May 1, 2013, 08:58 PM   #60
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Glad this thread is still in track.

For me, I'm sticking to 7.62x39, 54R, and 12ga for times like these when ammo is in short supply. Those calibers are all very cable of SD and hunting, and still rather cheap and available right now. Not the best for reloading of course, but thats what stockpiling/hoarding is for
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Old May 2, 2013, 02:11 AM   #61
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Well lets through hitch in this whole giddy-up ! OK , no real hitch and I'm not sure where the whole giddy-up thing came from but still .

I was just looking at the 308 family and the 338 Federal . I'm liking the ballistics out to 3 and 4 hundred yards . lots of energy being transfered out there .

I started to look for rifle manufacturers that sell rifles in the 338 Federal chambering . I came across the AR 10 chambered in 338 Federal . I was thinking if I was going to stick with the whole cartridge family thing and change barrels . I would think the AR 10 would be the perfect rifle for this purpose . I have some experience with the AR platform , the AR15 in particular . I do know that the AR10 is not as interchangeable as the AR15 so my questions now would be .

1) Can you change barrels out on the AR10 just like you can with the AR15 ?

2) If so , because the case is from the same family would you be able to use the same bolt for the 338 ?

3) If the answers to 1 and 2 are yes . Can you use the same mag for the 243 , 308 and the 338 Federal ?

4) Do they make a barrel chambered in 243 for the AR10 ?

If the answer is yes to all of the above I think the AR10 would be an awesome idea . what do you all think ?
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Old May 2, 2013, 04:31 AM   #62
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Best

While not a believer in catastrophic scenarios involving societal breakdown in the USA, I have long been a believer that economics and politics could, do, and will lead to ammo shortages.
With that in mind, in addition to keeping a supply of reloading components for most of the common cartridges, I have made sure to have alternatives to common ammo supplies....muzzleloaders - shotguns, rifles, pistols - all flintlocks. No need to buy anything......I can (and do) cast my own LRB, can make my own BP if I have to and don't need percussion caps.
In addition, some years ago, with this "shortage" scenario in mind, I acquired a large bore PCP air rifle and the means to charge the thing with the high pressure air that it needs. I use the same 185 - 200 grain bullets that I cast for my .45 ACP loads or .45 cal. Round ball for muzzleloaders. No, it is not nearly a .308...but it ain't your ol' Red Ryder either (the 200 grainers chrono at 600 fps. The RBs do 700.). Recently, I supplemented this with a .22 cal PCP pistol. So...I can shoot and I can hunt and I do not have to buy anything.
This is all a bit outside the box.....but that is the point, isn't it.
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Old May 2, 2013, 08:27 AM   #63
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Yeah - you don't want to be one of those guys whose survival plan was "Get up early and stand in line at the Gun Show"
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Old May 3, 2013, 05:27 PM   #64
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If the S really does HTF nothing will be in stock.

Personally out of the rifles I own I'd go with my M91/30. Pretty sure 7.62x54R will take down just about any game in north america, it's accurate enough, I already have over 1500 rounds for it, and if I was really worried (I'm not) I could easily buy several thousand more rounds without breaking the bank.
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Old May 3, 2013, 05:42 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal god
...I would like a good all around rifle that I would be able to get ammo for when panic buying is in full swing .

It would need to be / have

good for any animal in the north America

total wieght 8lbs or under

holds at least 4 rounds

stainless steel

stopping power or good energy transfer out to 3 or 4 hundred yards .

iron sights and able to mount a scope

Known to be an accurate round...
As far as a rifle goes, that pretty much describes Jeff Cooper's specifications for the Scout Rifle (scroll down a bit) in .308 Winchester:
Quote:
...By the definition of the Scout Rifle Conferences held under the auspices of Jeff Cooper the scout rifle has been defined as a general purpose rifle suitable for taking targets of up to 400 kg (880 pounds) at ranges to the limit of the shooters visibility (nominally 300 meters) that meets the following criteria:

Weight-sighted and slung: 3 kilograms (6.6 lb). This has been set as the ideal weight but the maximum has been stated as being 3.5 kg (7.7 pounds ).

Length: 1 meter (39 inches)

Nominal barrel length: .48 meter (19 inches)

Sighting system: Typically a forward and low mounted (ahead of the action opening) long eye relief telescope of between 2x and 3x. Reserve iron sights desirable but not necessary. Iron sights of the ghost ring type, without a scope, also qualify, as does a low powered conventional position scope.

Action: Magazine fed bolt action. Detachable box magazine and/or stripper clip charging is desirable but not necessary.

Sling: Fast loop-up type, i.e. Ching or CW style.

Caliber: Nominally .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 mm). Calibers such as 7 mm - 08 Remington (7 x 51 mm) or .243 Winchester (6 x 51 mm) being considered for frail individuals or where "military" calibers are proscribed.

Built-in bipod: Desirable but not mandatory.

Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups)...
As far as having ammunition available, .308 Win. is a common cartridge widely available in many loadings from many sources. Of course in a serious crisis nothing might be available anywhere, so you'd be well advised to keep a supply on hand.
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Old May 3, 2013, 06:03 PM   #66
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All I can think of that MIGHT fit that criteria would be something like a 7x57 mm, everything else is likely to be gobbled up pretty quickly.
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Old May 3, 2013, 08:53 PM   #67
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Seems to me that these last few months have provided a very good clue: "If you ain't got it, you ain't gonna get it."

If you're worried about some very uncertain and inhospitable future, you'd better set up to reload. Scrounge range brass if possible. Build up a stock of components as you can afford it. And buy ammo little by little, as you can afford it.

And I think I'd stay with the self-defense stand-by cartridges. .223, 7.62x39 and .308.
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Old May 4, 2013, 07:03 AM   #68
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Even now, in the midst of the ammo crunch, I could order up all the 7.62x54r I wanted for my Mosin M44... Not that I need to. I have coffee cans full of it.
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Old May 4, 2013, 06:43 PM   #69
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Distance x High Caliber

Guys I am new to firing line forum but have hunted a lot of things and quite honestly there is not a creature east of the Rockies that I can not get closer to than300 to 400 yds. If your prey is over 200yds it is just a little far unless your snipeing man. Any of the above named calibers are more than adequate if your aim is true.

53 yr. old hunter
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Old May 4, 2013, 06:48 PM   #70
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This doesn't mean a whole lot, but after all the panic buying started, I started going to a Cabellas and checking out what they had in inventory. Throughout this whole thing, they always had .30-06 in many varieties and flavors, they always had 7.62x39, and they usually had .223 but not always.

They would occasionally have something else. ONCE they had .22 LR. I still haven't seen a single box of .30-30 there. A majority of the time I went there they had some kind of .308 but not always.

This is just one store, with me checking every couple weeks, but it was educational to some degree.
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Old May 4, 2013, 06:53 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YELLOWDOGSLAYER
Guys I am new to firing line forum but have hunted a lot of things and quite honestly there is not a creature east of the Rockies that I can not get closer to than300 to 400 yds. If your prey is over 200yds it is just a little far unless your snipeing man....
I'd agree. As Jeff Cooper said:
Quote:
...People are still falling into the error of bragging about shots they should not have taken. It is not how far away your animal was, but how close you were able to get. Generally speaking, no shot attempted beyond 300 meters on a game animal should be exemplified. If you can get closer, get closer.....
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Old May 4, 2013, 07:35 PM   #72
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Hey welcome to TFL YELLOWDOGSLAYER you will like it here . Lots of good stuff and very knowledgeable people here . I'm part of a few firearm forums and none come close to TFL . Now If I could only stop breaking the rules here .

I have no intention of taking game out that far just wanted to give an idea of how much energy I wanted . If your ever going to take out a moose at 400 yards you better have something that will thump it pretty hard that far away .

I really have this new fascination with the 338 Federal cartridge . The problem is it goes against everything this thread is about . There are not a lot of rifles I have found chambered in it and it seems to be pretty hard to find ammo on-line for it so I could just imagine how hard it will be to find it in my local stores . I'm really stuck on the 308 family . just cus I've always wanted a 243 and have 308s so I'm already on my way to a large family .

Now to make it all work . Anybody have any thoughts on my idea to use the AR10 platform rather then a bolt action . Really I'm looking at the LMT mws or armalite AR10 for this idea of one rifle multiple calibers in the same parent case family . Looking to have one rifle with 3 barrels . 243 , 308 , 338 . I was looking at the cost to do what I've been talking about . WoW very spendy . I could buy three different rifles for less then doing the whole barrel switch-a-roo thing . I'm really liking the semi auto thing though .
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Old May 5, 2013, 07:52 PM   #73
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My top three shtf cartridges are 30-06, 308 and 7mm mag. I've been able to find all three through the panic here in OreGun.
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Old May 6, 2013, 10:12 AM   #74
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Quote:
...People are still falling into the error of bragging about shots they should not have taken. It is not how far away your animal was, but how close you were able to get. Generally speaking, no shot attempted beyond 300 meters on a game animal should be exemplified. If you can get closer, get closer.....
Well, there's another reason for me to not side with Cooper. I don't give a flip how close or how far someone shoots. Too each his own and it's all hunting.

For the record, my longest shot was a running yote a 430 yards using a .22-250. Stick that in your ear Cooper.
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Old May 6, 2013, 12:55 PM   #75
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My uncle hunted with a 22-250 for years because the low recoil. He had is legs half blown off by a land mine and sowed back on so he needed something light. Every dear he ever shot with it just ran off.If you don't have enough gun to slap your target down you better hit something vital. It's all about shot placement. One of those dear that ran off was shot again, this time in the head at about 400yrds by my father and his 94 win 30-30. Who says a 30-30 isn't long range capable. My uncle wasn't happy as the 30-30 folded his horns. After many years of chasing pin holed dear I'm not big on anything smaller than 7mm for dear. YMMV

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