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Old March 9, 2013, 03:00 PM   #1
ghengiskhan
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Help IDing a revolver

I've found myself with some "new" percussion cap firearms, all are clearly marked as to what they are except one:



Only markings:





Nothing else is on the revolver except a serial number in the 66xxx range. Any idea on how to determine the caliber? A .451 ball seems like it will go into the cylinder... Can I shoot .457? How do I determine the charge?
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Old March 9, 2013, 03:30 PM   #2
Willie Sutton
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Probably a Uberti, lift the loading lever and see if there's anything on the bottom of the BBL marked.

It's a copy of a Remington 1858 New Model Army, in case that's not already clear.


25 grains of fffG, a .457 ball, and some #11 caps would make it work...


Willie

.
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Old March 9, 2013, 03:42 PM   #3
spitpatch
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Rem

I think the AC tells us it was made in 1977.
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Old March 9, 2013, 03:46 PM   #4
ghengiskhan
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Willie,

such a prompt response!

Thanks for the info, where can I find a scooper I've got 2 cans of FFFg that are quite old but have been stored in an ammo can. I also have a number of tins of #12 caps - I tossed one on and it fit snuggly. Will a #11 be better?

Thanks for the info on the copy; I have inherited 3 hand guns and 2 long guns - so it's as though someone has pushed me off into the deep end into all this. I've never fired a black powder firearm but this is... exciting?

Under the loading arm is the number "5" and nothing else.... the plot thickens.
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Old March 9, 2013, 04:13 PM   #5
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Can

I might be wrong. But I don't think it's a good idea to store powder in a ammo can.
Whatever cap you use on the pistol make sure they fit snug.
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Old March 9, 2013, 04:28 PM   #6
44 Dave
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I came across a can of my FFFg I had not used from in 40 years, that old Dupont stuff just as good as the GOEX I bought last week.
Real black powder will last 300 years as illustrated with the canon in a museum storage out East some where. Best kept dry but can be reclaimed, but don't dry it in your stove.
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Old March 9, 2013, 05:21 PM   #7
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robhof

Had the same experience as 44, had a 3/4" bore model cannon that I put away in an ammo box back in 1969, with 1F some #11 caps and packet of cannon fuse, the caps were for a kit gun that got lost. My brother and I found it when we were clearing my mother's house a few years ago and we poured down some powder, added some wadding and packed it, lit the fuse and all was well. I even used the caps on my ROA and they worked fine.
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Old March 9, 2013, 05:44 PM   #8
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A .454 ball would be easier to load.
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Old March 9, 2013, 08:32 PM   #9
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I believe it's the Euroarms-manufactured replica of the Remington-Beals First Model Army Revolver (actually a transition model), the forerunner of the Remington 1858 New Army.

.44 caliber, it will use .454 or .457 soft lead balls over 30 grains fffg real black. Cap size is a crap shoot, could be anything.
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Old March 9, 2013, 09:05 PM   #10
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I agree with Mykeal. A straight on side view would be more "diagnostic" but it looks like there are not as many barrel threads showing on this gun as in the other makes (Uberti, ASM, Pietta) that actually produce a copy of the 1863 New Model Army 44 that has about 6 threads showing whereas this one has only 2 or 3 exposed as in the late Beals model. The Euroarms/Armi San Poualo guns are the lightest weight, smallest gripped of the Italian repros. I like them.
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Last edited by Hellgate; March 9, 2013 at 10:49 PM.
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Old March 9, 2013, 09:40 PM   #11
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.457 in a .44 cal 58 Remmy?

Please enlighten me...



Birch
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Old March 9, 2013, 10:52 PM   #12
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BirchOrr,
No problem with the .457" dia balls as long as they are of dead soft lead. I've not yet seen a 44 NMA that didn't do well with .454 dia balls but I have shot .457 w/o any problem. The larger ones are a little harder to ram but real hard lead could bend or shear the rammer pivot screw.
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Old March 10, 2013, 05:34 AM   #13
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I am with Mykeal on Euroarms.

That means that you should find a maker's mark under the grips (You have to take them off) on the grip frame. It should be "DDG" (or is it "DGG"?) arranged in a triangle.

Means the manuf was Armi San Paolo who did a lot or Euroarms work.
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Old March 10, 2013, 11:26 AM   #14
PetahW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirchOrr
Please enlighten me...
When a soft/pure lead ball, a bit larger than the caliber, is rammed home in the cylinder/chamber, a very thin ring of lead is shaved off the ball, ensuring a tight, flame-proof seal at the front of the chamber.

That said, "44's" of the ML era are not necessarily the same size/caliber as what today is referred to as a "44" - why it's a good idea to try a different size ball.
Ditto .36 cal's.


.
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Old March 10, 2013, 01:04 PM   #15
Hellgate
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You might also find the DGG right at the bottom of the barrel under the rammer or under the cylinder pin right where the barrel emerges from the frame.
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Old March 10, 2013, 02:06 PM   #16
ghengiskhan
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For those wanting a a better side view:



Only markings under the grips:



This couldn't have been built from a kit, could it?

No markings under the barrel under the rammer or near the cylinder.
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Old March 10, 2013, 02:34 PM   #17
Hellgate
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The lack of barrel threads showing and the lower front sight is highly suggestive of a ASP/Euroarms gun. On a couple of my ASP/Euros I had to order taller front sights as they shot a little high. They also had dovetailed front sights (like Ubertis, unlike Piettas) which made them easy to replace.



P.S.

Great photo! Did you pull the cylinder pin and look under it for the logo?
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Old March 10, 2013, 03:09 PM   #18
Hawg
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Quote:
Means the manuf was Armi San Paolo who did a lot or Euroarms work.
Umm not exactly. Euroarms was Armi san Paolo to begin with. They changed the name in 2002.

I agree it looks like an ASP Beals.
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Old March 10, 2013, 04:39 PM   #19
ghengiskhan
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Well well well, I should probably hold my tongue unless I'm absolutely certain.

Look what I found under some new light:



I'm just waiting on some bullet lube (ball lube? ) and I'll be taking it out and shooting along with an Antonio Zoli .58 Navy Model 1861(?).

One last question on a slightly different tone; what's a NIB/never fired Ruger Old Army Single Six in .457 worth? I see they stopped making them a few years ago. It's not a collectors revolver, correct?
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Old March 10, 2013, 05:12 PM   #20
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The ROA is worth what someone will pay you for it. I'm looking at one right now, SS 7.5 inch. Owned presently by the original owner who has all the paper work and claims he only fired 38 rounds out of it. Its going for $400. The same gun on gun broker could sell for twice that amount.
But why sell it? They are nice guns and shoot well. I believe they quit production in '08.
These guns are not modeled after any original design. People still collect them though.
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Old March 10, 2013, 05:47 PM   #21
Doc Hoy
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I'm with NER.

Hang onto it.

When you get bit by the cap and ball revolver bug, (which the Remington will surely do) You'll want that ROA.
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Old March 10, 2013, 05:51 PM   #22
Hawg
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Quote:
When you get bit by the cap and ball revolver bug, (which the Remington will surely do) You'll want that ROA.
I was bit by the C&B bug 44 years ago. It never made me want one.
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Old March 10, 2013, 06:07 PM   #23
mykeal
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Just goes to show there are those out there who



just


don't



get


it.


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Old March 10, 2013, 06:15 PM   #24
Hawg
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Not gonna get it either Mikey boy. Don't wanna get it.
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Old March 10, 2013, 06:32 PM   #25
Doc Hoy
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I was just gonna say....

...That a single reason for selling this revolver would be Hawg's. I think I am not putting words in his mouth when I say that if period correct revolvers are important then the ROA doesn't really make it. It is only period correct for the years beginning sometime around the middle of the 20th century.

I like them because of the quality. I had an opportunity to buy my fourth ROA at a gunshow two weeks ago for four hundred bucks. I am still kicking myself for letting it go.

When you have the opportunnity to compare the performance of the Remington to the ROA, you will see that the ROA is really a well engineered shooting tool.

That quality engineering does not extend to the design of the loading lever. I can't for the life of me understand the rational for designing the revolver such that it takes three hands to put it together in the field. My only criticism.
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