The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 22, 2013, 10:00 PM   #1
Wheel of fortune
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2011
Posts: 5
1860 Army What is this?

I got an Colt 1860 gen 2 about a month ago and have shot it several times since purchase. When I bought it it had a dished out areas on the cylinder notches. I don't know if it is getting worse with my use. What is causing this and is this something to worry about? Thank you.

Wheel of fortune is offline  
Old February 22, 2013, 10:32 PM   #2
pohill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2005
Location: northeast
Posts: 521
The pic isn't very clear, but are you saying that the ramp leading into the bolt stop is getting deeper?
pohill is offline  
Old February 22, 2013, 10:48 PM   #3
BerdanSS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2011
Location: to close to other houses
Posts: 999
Pic is kinda fuzzy...looks like the bolt may be popping prematurely and dinging the bolt stop ramp.
BerdanSS is offline  
Old February 22, 2013, 10:49 PM   #4
Shotput79
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 177
Sorry can't see it very clear. My eyesight is bad enough with clear pictures.
Shotput79 is offline  
Old February 22, 2013, 11:30 PM   #5
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 17,057
Bolt is popping up too soon and is peening the cylinder. This means the timing is bad.
  • The tail of the bolt may be too short, which causes it to fall off too fast.
  • Or the hand may be too short, causing the cylinder not to rotate fast enough before the bolt pops up.
  • Or the stub on the hammer that operates the bolt is worn out, allowing the bolt's tail to fall off too fast.
  • Or the sear (top of the trigger) is worn (too short) and thus the hammer has to over-rotate for it to engage each of the three notches.

BTW, do not file those marks off on your cylinder. I would use a punch and try to peen them back down.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 01:51 PM   #6
McShooty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2012
Location: Northern Missouri
Posts: 343
I have a Pietta 1860 replica that has done the same thing. I agree with Gary that the bolt is popping up early and peening the flute. However, when the bolt finally locks in the notch, everything is lined up and the gun shoots very well. In addition to that issue, my 1860 will not allow the hammer to be drawn back and cocked on the first try. I do not know if the two conditions are related, but they amount to a quality control problem with Pietta that sometimes leads to their arms not being held in very high esteem.
McShooty is offline  
Old February 23, 2013, 05:15 PM   #7
Beagle333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Auburn, AL.
Posts: 1,516
This is how I do it.... Your mileage may vary.

The bolt spring is too strong for the soft metal they use in bp cylinders. This is pretty common. You can get a replacement low power spring from Wolff springs. They offer a replacement flat spring and also a music wire spring. I have found that the trigger side of the replacement springs is just about a hair short of perfect, and while it will work, it is a little tricky to install so that it keep contact with the tooth on the trigger during the entire installation. And while they are better than stock springs, they aren't that much lower power, or at least the 8 of em I have are not.

But one fix that you can do at home, and quite easily, is to feather the bolt spring a little, either with some very fine sandpaper or using a Dremel tool (I don't like Dremels, but I mention it because they are so popular) and just thin down the bolt leaf of the spring to take a little strength out of it. Do not alter the trigger side of the spring, that is not safe for amateurs to modify.
You can just do some searching in the smithy forum or google how to feather a spring if you aren't comfortable with it.

You should also use some fine sandpaper (I like 600-800) to break the edges of the bolt face so it isn't so sharp on the corners and it will reduce gouging of the cylinder lead-in ramps. Do not round off the bolt, but just barely take the knife edge off the corners of it and slick up the face to a nice glass-smooth surface.

Ideally, the timing would be tuned so the bolt drops into the locking notch perfectly upon full cock, but this is a job for a gunsmith. It is very tedious work and you'll go through a handful of bolts before you get it right.
It's a more achievable goal (and perfectly functional) for you to get it to pop up about a bolt width before the notch, contact the cylinder without gouging a big dent in it, and then just slide down the ramp and into the notch.
You do not want to time it so close to the notch that it pops up and just clips the edge of the notch before it goes in, or it will peen the metal from the side of the notch down into the notch itself. So if you mess with the timing, it must be perfectly in line with the notch, or at least a bolt width before the notch when it activates.
__________________
1860. It just feels right.

Last edited by Beagle333; February 23, 2013 at 05:30 PM. Reason: 'cause it's Saturday
Beagle333 is offline  
Old February 24, 2013, 03:07 PM   #8
Smokin'Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2010
Posts: 138
Make your own bolt spring.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=467782
Smokin'Joe is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 02:08 PM   #9
NateKirk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2013
Location: Detroit
Posts: 127
Look at this article
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles...a_Part_One.pdf
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles...a_Part_Two.pdf

Has lots of useful info for improving the gun
NateKirk is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 03:30 PM   #10
LivewireBlanco
Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2012
Location: West Texas
Posts: 61
McShooty, I just sent back a Pietta 1860 that doesn't cock on the first try too. It only did it on 2 of the 6 chambers. I'm thinking it was something to do with the cylinder where the hand engages those chambers.
LivewireBlanco is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 06:55 PM   #11
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,874
The bolt is not contoured (shaped) correctly to hit the leads without causing the damage. The PDFs that NateKirk referenced should help you correct the problem without too much trouble. The top of the bolt should have the same profile as the leads and notches.
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old April 29, 2013, 07:04 PM   #12
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,979
The bolt is not dropping prematurely; it is supposed to drop into the leade, which is what it is doing.

Beagle and Fingers are correct. The spring is too strong and the bolt is probably sharp. Because the bolt has to be a spring (because of the way it interacts with the hammer cam), it is much harder than the cylinder of those guns. The bolt ball has to be reshaped and the bolt spring tension reduced.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old April 30, 2013, 08:19 AM   #13
Rifleman1776
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
Timing is way off.
And the cylinder is made of pathetically soft steel.
Rifleman1776 is offline  
Old April 30, 2013, 09:08 AM   #14
NateKirk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2013
Location: Detroit
Posts: 127
Quote:
And the cylinder is made of pathetically soft steel.

most bp revolvers have relatively soft parts
__________________
“Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".”

― --Thomas Jefferson
NateKirk is offline  
Old May 1, 2013, 05:25 PM   #15
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,862
The timing isn't off. The bolt is supposed to drop into the lead, that's what its there for. Do as was said and lighten the spring and reshape the bolt to fit.
Hawg is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 01:53 PM   #16
Rebel Dave
Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2008
Location: Burlington Wis.
Posts: 35
To the OP. always pull the hammer back to full cock to let it down again, never from half cock, This will cause drag marks on the cylinder and pre wear the bolt. Always pull back to full cock and then let it down. Of course always observe all safety rules, when doing this.

Rebel Dave
Rebel Dave is offline  
Old May 2, 2013, 05:10 PM   #17
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,862
Quote:
always pull the hammer back to full cock to let it down again, never from half cock, This will cause drag marks on the cylinder
That is true but I'm not seeing a drag line just peening of the leads.
Hawg is offline  
Old May 3, 2013, 02:31 PM   #18
blfuller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2013
Location: Washington State
Posts: 235
I would replace the bolt spring with one of the Heine trigger/bolt springs made out of spring wire. I have one in my Uberti 1860 and it works fine and is not as strong as the original flat spring so it doesn't peen the cylinder up. They run about $8 or so.
blfuller is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11102 seconds with 9 queries