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Old April 23, 2013, 06:53 PM   #1
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Rumor on executive orders and imports

Is it true that Obama is now trying to "ban" the importation of surplus ammunition and the import of parts kits that may be used to build semi-automatic military style rifles?

Possibly even "ban" (through ATF interpretation) the import of commercial ammo that may be used as military ammunition?

http://investmentwatchblog.com/execu...onal-approval/
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Old April 23, 2013, 07:09 PM   #2
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I had not heard that, but I do know that you can keep abreast of Executive Orders here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-r...ecutive-orders
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Old April 23, 2013, 07:14 PM   #3
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There are always rumors of this, that or the other. Some of them are even true. For whatever reason, BATFE (and thus the White House) have fairly broad discretion over which firearms and ammunition are permitted to be imported into the U.S. It's unlikely that any such action, whether statutorily provided or assumed via executive order, would be ruled unconstitutional (at least in my opinion).
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Old April 23, 2013, 07:24 PM   #4
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Interestingly, Pres. Obama has issued fewer executive orders than any other president in the last 100 years. This article from New York Magazine has a graph that compares the executive orders issued per day for all presidents who served during that time span, and Mr. Obama is right at the bottom. By that measure, he has issued fewer executive orders than the likes of George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Calvin Coolidge. The most recent president to issue fewer than Mr. Obama: Grover Cleveland, who left office in 1897.

As to the rumor in the OP, I would give it no credence at all until I see something from more believable sources than that one; or, even better, on the White House page Spats linked or in the Federal Register:
https://www.federalregister.gov/exec...ack-obama/2013
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Old April 23, 2013, 07:55 PM   #5
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All this noise comes from Alex Jones doing a newsflash of an article done by The Examiner that basically revolves around the UN Arms Treaty, that still has to be approved by Congress.

Nothing new here, but might as well take the opportunity to write/call your reps and let them know we are against the Arms Treaty. I cant say that enough as I swear 90% of the people that say they do, actually never contact anyone in Congress or The Senate.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:24 PM   #6
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I could not find anywhere on that Whitehouse website about the executive orders that Obama signed after Sandy Hook. Why would those executive orders not be listed on the whitehouses own website?

Although Alex Jones can often times get his facts backwards, I wouldn't discount him totally. I would say for sure his chances of getting the news right is about as reliable as CNN or MSNBC.

What the issue seems to revolve around is that Obama is attempting to (within his executive powers to abide by the UN treaty that was signed) tell the ATF to go all out and stop whatever imports they can get away with.

That is what the article seems to suggest. I am not even sure an executive order would be needed for them to do this.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:26 PM   #7
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Those orders that were (allegedly) signed right after Sandy Hook have never shown up there, and I do not know why. I've been watching for them.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:31 PM   #8
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While the U.S. voted "yes" on the arms treaty at the U.N., Pres. Obama has NO "powers" under that treaty, nor will he have unless and until the Senate ratifies it, which is approximately as likely as the Easter Bunny running for president next time around. (Which is too bad -- I'd probably vote for her if she did run...)
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:25 PM   #9
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He can attempt to use the ATF to try to mirror the requirments of the treaty as much as possible within their power.

He has the authority to do that and has had that authority since being president. The ATF has a lot of leeway in regulating imports of arms. I am sure with a little research you can find a lot of information on it. Curio and Relic dealers know all too well the Kangaroo court the ATF runs.
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:30 PM   #10
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Re: Rumor on executive orders and imports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsourced Crackpot
Congress, and thus We the People, may have unequivocally rejected federal legislation in March (...) A direct on attack on the second amendment is difficult if not impossible, so they are trying to slither their way in through the backdoor by restricting international trade.
Just a heads-up, folks: this is not how credible, professional journalists write. This is blogspeak at best. Show me something from a reputable (or at least financially solvent) source, and I'll consider taking it seriously. This would be in the national press if it had legs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanya View Post
(Which is too bad -- I'd probably vote for her if she did run...)
Wait, the Easter Bunny's a woman? I am so getting sued now
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:34 PM   #11
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Correct me if I'm wrong; but I still remember the day they banned the import of receivers and barrels (pretty sure it was in 2000) - I remember as I was starting to research FALs and in the middle the receivers and barrels were cut off. A cutoff to the rest of the parts on these guns is not outside the realm of the realistic.

(I realize too that domestic manufacture of a lot of this stuff, or of good alternative platforms, makes a lot of this moot compared with a domestic AWB).
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:38 PM   #12
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http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...-military.html

They have the authority on surplus ammunition. I know I have seen surplus ammo show up from time to time at ammunition sites I was never aware how much it can be regulated.

All they have to basically do is flat out say any ball surplus ammo is non-sporting period.
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Wait, the Easter Bunny's a woman? I am so getting sued now
Tom... where did you think Easter eggs came from?
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Tom... where did you think Easter eggs came from?
You know, in all my years here at TFL, that may have left the singular most disturbing image in my head ever...
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Old April 24, 2013, 06:53 AM   #15
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When I interpret the graph posted by the NY magazine linked to early in the discussion, one thing that jumps out at me as that Bush II and Obama are virtually the same in the number of EO's issued per day. Per day is a spin by the media to show that Obama hasn't really done any more than Bush II. However, the part that they aren't addressing is that he has only been in office for a little over 4 years so his comparison time is significantly shorter than Bush II. Also, Bush II was in during some of the most controversial times in our history in regards to conducting a new type of war-terrorism. Also not noted is what were the constraints of those EO's issued? Yes Bush II enacted the Patriot Act, but Obama has gone so much farther down the road of eroding private rights and in a much shorter time period, that in my opinion the two are really not comparable. Such as authorizing the use of drone strikes agaist US citizens without established due process. The POTUS making a unilateral decision that you are a terrorist and authorizing the strike is not established due process to me.

As for guns, he can write anything he wants as the court system hasn't addressed any of his other EO's, some of which appear to be borderline on their constitutionality as addressed by pundits far smarter than me. Look at the $3mil cap on retirement funds. How is that anywhere near legal for him to do.

I apologize for getting off topic, but please don't close your eyes as he can try anything he wants in regards to guns, ammo, parts, etc. . . It wouldn't surprise me.
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Old April 24, 2013, 07:20 AM   #16
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Obama's executive orders are a red herring issue perpetuated by the fringe media.

To date Obama has signed about 152 executive orders. President G. W. Bush signed 290 executive orders during the 8 years of his presidency.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...sposition.html

Obama's latest executive orders:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...013.html#13641

Quote:
I could not find anywhere on that Whitehouse website about the executive orders that Obama signed after Sandy Hook. Why would those executive orders not be listed on the whitehouses own website?
They exist only in the minds of fringe media panjandrums like Alex Jones.
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Old April 24, 2013, 08:40 AM   #17
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As civily and politely as possible, I'll simply state that Alex Jones gives me way too much of a headache whenever I have had the displeasure of listening to him. I'll just leave it at that.

On topic, I don't think we should be getting all hyped up right now until something official has been documented.

Stay vigilant, though, Obama did make it clear that he plans on continuing the push for more gun control, at the very least in the form on an EO.
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Old April 24, 2013, 09:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
They exist only in the minds of fringe media panjandrums like Alex Jones.
And the copy for President Obama's Speech where he said he was signing them, and the copy of Vice President Biden's multiple speeches where he referenced them?
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
They exist only in the minds of fringe media panjandrums like Alex Jones.
I have learned a new word today. I like it.

That said, the orders were apparently signed, but they haven't been published on the White House site.
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
And the copy for President Obama's Speech where he said he was signing them, and the copy of Vice President Biden's multiple speeches where he referenced them?
The term used was "executive action". "Executive action" can range from whining, to appointing a director of the BAFTE, to demanding congress pass draconian gun control laws, to tightning existing gun law. "Executive action" is distinct from "executive order".


Obama's 23 "executive actions":

Quote:
The following is a list, provided by the White House, of executive actions President Obama plans to take to address gun violence.
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/gun-contro...#ixzz2RP4jVADp


http://nation.foxnews.com/gun-contro...e-actions-guns
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:56 PM   #21
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Just so.

The reason that no executive orders regarding gun control have appeared on the White House site or in the Federal Register is that the President hasn't issued any. According to this article in New York Magazine, he has issued the 23 orders as "executive actions" or "presidential memoranda;" it seems that the administration considers these to be less likely to be seen as "going around Congress," presumably in part because executive actions don't have to be published in the Federal Register. (Three of the 23 were issued in the form of presidential memoranda; these are published in the Federal Register under the heading "Presidential Documents.")

Striking another blow for transparency in government...
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Last edited by Vanya; April 24, 2013 at 04:54 PM.
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:59 PM   #22
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And how does this interact with, as Chief Executive, promulgating more/different regulations and standards through the BATFE, as an executive department, with powers delegated by Congress? (Honestly asking where, if at all those would show up from the President's Desk)
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Old April 24, 2013, 01:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
And how does this interact with, as Chief Executive, promulgating more/different regulations and standards through the BATFE, as an executive department, with powers delegated by Congress? (Honestly asking where, if at all those would show up from the President's Desk)
Three US administrations have banned guns from import, citing the "sporting purposes" clause of the GCA 1968. When a gun is banned from import the BATFE either contacts the importer and tells him to cease importing the gun or publishes a letter.
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Old April 24, 2013, 04:45 PM   #24
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I've deleted some posts. Just a reminder: L&CR rules prohibit posting links to " ineffectual and useless online petitions."
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Old April 24, 2013, 05:00 PM   #25
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But not a specific, and reasonably plausible one on the White House website that will in fact get a response with enough signatures?
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