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Old April 4, 2013, 08:05 PM   #1
BigD_in_FL
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For those who wonder why a high dollar SxS costs so much

Watch this video- lasts a little over 6 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5HoKCDwmD8

Pay attention to the fact that this gun is basically handmade
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Old April 4, 2013, 08:19 PM   #2
Virginian-in-LA
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Doesn't matter. If you suggest that an expensive quality gun is worth it, some people see it as an act of class warfare.
I'm with you. Until someone has shot a really GOOD SxS, they can't begin to understand.
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Old April 5, 2013, 04:56 AM   #3
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I've never owned a "high dollar" SXS, but I have long admired them.

Funny story. Last week I found a Parker Trogan for sale at a reasonable price. I passed on it at first, then called the shop back a few hours later and told the clerk to put it on hold for me. I went back a couple of days later and asked to see it. Fellow went and got the gun while I made a pit stop.

When I came back my wife was holding the gun. As I walked up, I thought to myself, "I don't remember it having a beavertail forearm...or a straight English stock...or a silver receiver...Ok, they got somebody elses gun. No, it's got my name on it...It is a Parker...$500.00? Maybe they're giving me an upgrade for being a good customer...Oh WAIT! That's not $500.00...that's $5,000.00. Do NOT scratch this gun."

Turned out the fellow I talked to pulled the wrong Parker. They had more than one...who knew? The one I wanted was a Trogan, the bottom of the Parker line. This one was a HGE, VGE, or some alphabet combination. It was expensive at least in my world, anyway.

But, I understand that in the world of Parkers, even that one was "inexpensive."
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Old April 5, 2013, 08:15 AM   #4
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Interesting video. But, I'm not convinced all those hand operations need to be done by hand these days. A lot of make work to maintain the mistique and price.
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:01 AM   #5
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Hand fitting of a gun to the customer's requirements by folks whose skills cannot be replicated by computer, is something that some folks appreciate and want. Barrels are struck to their specific weight and balance requirements; stocks shaped and then finished to exacting requirements, etc. are also hard to do by machine.

According to your thought process, there is no need for musicians, artists, or anything similar, because a computer can do that anyway
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:36 AM   #6
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Nice looking shotguns, the thing I noticed most about the video is the lack of safety glasses.
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Old April 5, 2013, 10:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Hand fitting of a gun to the customer's requirements by folks whose skills cannot be replicated by computer, is something that some folks appreciate and want.
Agreed. There are some things that you would think a computer should be able to do as well as an artisan, but it rarely works out that way.

Brooks Brothers (the clothing company) has installed computerized scanners in some of their stores that record up to 700,000 data points on the customer's body with an accuracy of less than a quarter-millimeter. In theory, this should allow for computer-sizing of suits, and an even better fit than their semi-custom "made to measure" program.

But the reality was that the resulting suits didn't fit as well, because there was no skilled artisan to make the necessary little "tweaks" as the suit comes together. As one Brooks Brothers tailor said of the scanner "It would work great - if we were selling wetsuits."
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Old April 5, 2013, 02:29 PM   #8
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iraiam it is not the United States where they are working. The gun makers serve a apprenticeship that is much longer than one in the states.

Some gunmaking schools won't let a apprentice move on till they learn how to use a file, and that is about two years.

And thats why the guns cost so much, the skill of the workmen. Remember these guns are not made on a punchpress.
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Old April 5, 2013, 07:53 PM   #9
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Many of the workers who work for Arrietta and AyA are replacing their fathers, who replaced THEIR fathers on those same work benches, and as mentioned, the apprenticeship is longer than any US union trade, sometimes as long as 10+ years. This is as much art as it is mechanical assembly workmanship
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:49 PM   #10
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Those are nice looking shotguns but for the price they command I'd rather have a custom centerfire. I can't justify that kind of loot for a pheasant gun.
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Old April 5, 2013, 09:56 PM   #11
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They'll build you one of those, although they only make a few of those a year
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Old April 6, 2013, 03:13 PM   #12
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The guns are called "bespoke" or spoken for.

If you can afford a bespoke gun you don't have to justify it.


Just want to add: The Spanish or other gun makers will build you a custom centerfire rifle if you want.

Last edited by jaguarxk120; April 6, 2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old April 6, 2013, 05:03 PM   #13
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Those are nice looking shotguns but for the price they command I'd rather have a custom centerfire. I can't justify that kind of loot for a pheasant gun.
Really? Personally, I'd rather shoot a pheasant (or a grouse or a woodcock or a quail) than I would a deer (and I've killed more than a few deer in my life). I would argue this: a quality double-barrel shotgun has potentially many objective advantages in terms of handling, durability, reliability, pattering uniformity and point of impact to point of aim, over a cheap s/s but, other than subjective aesthetics (and I appreciate looks and workmanship as much as anyone else), a custom rifle won't necessarily shoot any more accurately, be any more reliable or durable or handle any better than a good (even cheaper- as in Savage) factory rifle.
I think you get more for your money in an objective sense in a high-dollar double-barreled shotgun than you ever will with a high-dollar rifle. Just my jaded opinion, of course.
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Old April 6, 2013, 08:43 PM   #14
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If I could shoot a shotgun as much as I wanted - that would be everyday... I loved to have one. However, the last thing I shot with a shotgun ...a starling...was about 5 months ago.
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Old April 6, 2013, 09:11 PM   #15
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http://www.hunting-rifles.com/Rifles/700AHR/700AHR.htm

This just an example of an "if I had the money" type rifle I would be after. I love big bore guns. Especially side by side big bores. I just happened to find the price tag on this one and thought I'd share
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Old April 6, 2013, 11:52 PM   #16
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Just put it in lay-away-that's where I've got a box of .22s now.
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Old April 7, 2013, 06:27 AM   #17
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You do not need to spend 5 figures to get an excellent SxS.
In American style guns, the Browning BSSs, Winchester 23s, Parker Reproductions (although I have never been a Parker fan), and Berettas are all well made guns. The SKB 100s and 200s are good guns for the money, and a bit lighter. There are also several English style good guns available as well if you look.
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Old April 7, 2013, 09:37 AM   #18
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Those are nice looking shotguns but for the price they command I'd rather have a custom centerfire.
Aren't modern shotguns centerfires?

With the exception of .22 shotshells, it's been a long time since anyone made a rimfire or pinfire shotgun.
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Old April 7, 2013, 02:39 PM   #19
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You do not need to spend 5 figures to get an excellent SxS.
In American style guns, the Browning BSSs, Winchester 23s, Parker Reproductions (although I have never been a Parker fan), and Berettas are all well made guns. The SKB 100s and 200s are good guns for the money, and a bit lighter. There are also several English style good guns available as well if you look.
Most of the Spanish guns aren't 5 figures until you get into the high-end engraving and exhibition wood

The only thin I dislike about your choices are the single triggers. If clay shooting, no big deal, but I really prefer two triggers when upland hunting, especially when I lived out West and chased wild quail and chukar. You never knew whcih way those dang birds were going to go upon liftoff....., otherwise, all those you mention are nice guns in the 1-5K range. But for the mid-to upper range in that $$$ amount, new Uggies, AyAs and Arriettas are available - and if you can wait and order through each one's importer, you can get the stock to your dimensions for little to no extra costs - a real advantage when shooting a SxS - especially for someone like me who is LH
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Old April 7, 2013, 04:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Aren't modern shotguns centerfires?
Touche (pronounced "too shay")

My apologies for not being more specific. I was referring to large bore, centerfire rifles
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Old April 7, 2013, 04:52 PM   #21
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You do not need to spend 5 figures to get an excellent SxS.
True. Last I looked, you can still get a "basic" Merkel (Model 47E) double for not much over $3,000.00 ("street price").
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Old April 22, 2013, 07:53 PM   #22
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Get a good Stoger Coach gun for $359.00 . Great shotgun, made by bennili. The price is right.
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Old April 22, 2013, 08:09 PM   #23
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I think the first complete one they showed was a rifle, unless it was a .410 though I swear I saw rifling.

I think I found the engraving to be the most impressive step.
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Old April 23, 2013, 05:11 AM   #24
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Stoegers are not made by Benelli. They are both owned by Beretta.
I find I can switch the barrel selector if I need to about as quick as I can pick a trigger, but I haven't hunted mountain quail so I can't doubt you. My daughter is a lefty so I am familiar with the extra burden society puts on yall in many ways. She has small hands and found the reach to the front trigger on the other side bothersome on two trigger guns. I find the trigger set up on SxSs sort of like the safety location on pump guns, it doesn't matter too much to me, as long as the trigger selector is convenient. Won't own a non selective single trigger. The Win 23s were easiest being integrated with the safety. I do like double triggers a lot too. I sometimes hunt with the same choke in both barrels. I know I'm a bit strange on some things.

Last edited by Virginian-in-LA; April 23, 2013 at 05:24 AM.
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Old April 23, 2013, 07:24 AM   #25
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One thing about SxS's that cost more is the recievers are scaled to the gauge. The makers of less expensive guns use a 12 gauge reciever for 12 & 16, then drop down to 20,28, and 410. I've seen some 410 guns that have a reciever that looks like a crudely shapen piece of steel.

At one gun show there was a AYA (used) in 28 ga., nice engraving, OK wood, when you picked it up - it was as if the gun came alive - light, swinging fast and sure. It was also $3,500.
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