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Old July 22, 2013, 12:14 AM   #1
lightjunkie
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shop took my money for Glock 20 can't get gun after 5 months or return my money EDIT

I am new to this forum, I am desperate and could use some advice , in February 18 2013 I went to a local gunshop and asked if they could procure a Gloci 20 10 MM in either gen sf or gen 4 they gave me a price of 660.07$ whicch I paid for completely in advance , that as over 5 months ago and when I ask if they have a possible eta on it the response is ; it a special order item Glock doesn't have any , but I have seen either Gen 4's or Gen3's at six other local shops since I have asked for either my money back or what I paid for and they refused saying they don't give refunds on special orders I have tried filing with small claim courts and they wont deal with it because it is a firearm, I ha e called ATF they told me call local PD which i did and they said its a civil matter they cant do anything I have called Attorney General. They won't get involved because its a fire arm I don't kno what to do I have receipt. I sacrificed to buy it as Iam disabled and really saved and sacrificed I'm a law abiding citizen with a state issued CCW any suggestions are welcome thanks in advance.EDIT:I am a fair man its funny though in less than a week after this post I had call from LGS to tell my G20 sf was in!? Thanks all for support!

Last edited by lightjunkie; July 25, 2013 at 01:22 AM. Reason: change status
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Old July 22, 2013, 01:39 AM   #2
BarryLee
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While not the most common gun they are not exactly rare either. I will tell you that it is not unusual for shops to refuse refunds for special orders, but again they should try to fill your order. I would consult with an attorney and at least see if they can provide some solution. Although a lot of folks seem to be blowing you off they might pay more attention to an attorney.
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Old July 22, 2013, 01:48 AM   #3
lightjunkie
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thank you.

I am trying the attorneys I have spoken with, they told me they would charge more than what the fire arm is worth I am trying to see if one will do it and. Charge the shop for thier fees its pretty cut and dry I paid in advance I have receipt and thats it. Thanks for I nput
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Old July 22, 2013, 05:23 AM   #4
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I find it difficult to believe that small claims court won't deal with it because it's a firearm. What the item is does not concern the court. Try again. The clerk may not like guns and is giving you a line.
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Old July 22, 2013, 09:04 AM   #5
geetarman
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I think something is up with your LGS. Bud's Guns has that pistol for sale and they are not out of stock or backordered. They are running around $545.

I would be royally POd.

Google Buds and see if what I told you is the exact same gun. If so, go to the LGS and get in their face if they can't give you a straight answer.

There is no excuse. If I did not get some satisfaction that way, I would be looking to sue for damages and attorneys fees.

Ask them who they are ordering from. If it has been that long and they have not been able to deliver and other gun shops have the gun, some accommodation for your position should be in order.

You should not have to put up with that crap.

I have paid for a gun from Bud's that they have not been able to deliver. I paid for it in January and probably cannot expect delivery before November. I paid by CC and have a guaranteed price at the time I ordered and got my place in line.

I think your LGS is giving you the run around.
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Old July 22, 2013, 09:44 AM   #6
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I too find it hard to believe that the Small Claims Court won't take a case that "involves a firearm". Fraud is fraud.

I can sympathize with the store's "No returns on Special Orders" policy if you had bought the gun and wanted to return it. But if they still have your money and no gun after 4 months, that's another story.

Try Small Claims again.
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Old July 22, 2013, 09:51 AM   #7
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Go through the small claims court in your county. The court clerk has absolutely no discretion over the suit, if you want to file, and will pay the fee for the civil warrant, they have to put the case on the docket.

It is a civil matter and, that is what small claims was designed for, to settle such matters as yours.

It may cost you a couple of hundred bucks but, you will likely get your money back.
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Old July 22, 2013, 09:58 AM   #8
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While I agree that the LGS should give the OP his money back, it's not unusual for shops to not offer refunds on special orders. After all, what's the point of requiring payment up front on a special order if you can change your mind at any time and get your money back?

Also, Glock 20s haven't been all that common since December, and Glock 20 SFs or Gen 4s even less so; it's not ridiculous to think that some shops would take this long to get one, especially if it's a small shop and there were people ahead of him who ordered the same gun.

This story right here is the reason a lot of shops are hesitant to order certain guns, especially after the run on guns started in December. Customers always want you to special order guns for them, even if they're out of stock or allocated at the distributer. But then it can take months (or even years) to come in, and before it does the customer is upset and demanding his money back. So now the shop has to refund the money to the customer - money that may have already been invested elsewhere - and also may still have to pay for the special order item once it comes in.

I work at a large LGS. If, over the last six months, we had special ordered ordered every firearm that every customer wanted us to order, we would have a huge problem. Many manufactures and distributors are taking years to fill special orders. And even six months is not a long time to wait for many guns these days. We already had to refund thousands of dollars worth of special order money when some items took a few months longer than expected and the customers got upset about it.
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Old July 22, 2013, 10:02 AM   #9
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File the suit in Small Claims, there are no restrictions on the reasons for the claim, just the amounts. Only thing you can't file a claim for is something illegal, like getting your drugs ripped off or something.

If the LGS owner doesn't show up in court, you get an automatic judgement. Up here, you give that to the Sheriff, and he either collects in full for you or seizes a quantity of goods from the LGS owner that will auction off to pay the judgement amount.

Be sure to name the LGS and owner, personally, as well.
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Old July 22, 2013, 10:12 AM   #10
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Ditto small claims. I don't know what state you live it, but even if for some very odd reason the judge can't issue an order for replevin of the firearm, there is no reason you can't get a judgment for the value of the gun plus whatever you paid to have the work done.
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Old July 22, 2013, 10:37 AM   #11
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Did you pay cash or credit card ? If CC dispute the charge and they will refund the cost.
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Old July 22, 2013, 11:50 AM   #12
lightjunkie
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well I guess ill try small claims

Again but when I paid the the 35.00 $ processing fee the clerk told me the judge wouldn't do it because it was a firearm and as far a availability, six other stores locally had the same exact G20 which is why I asked for my money back so I could purchase from one of the other stores, what I don't understand why cant tbe store I paid cash for in advance get it? Thanks again maybe I just had a anti-gun court clerk I guess ill try small claims again thanks.
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Old July 22, 2013, 11:57 AM   #13
Spats McGee
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Credit card: See Rmart30's comment.

Small claims: I've never heard of a small claims court refusing to hear a case that involved a firearm. (Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just means I haven't heard of it.) I'd go ahead and pursue them in small claims court. If you lose, consider appealing the decision, and don't forget to ask the court to order the LGS to pay your filing fees.

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Old July 22, 2013, 12:01 PM   #14
geetarman
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Quote:
as far a availability, six other stores locally had the same exact G20 which is why I asked for my money back so I could purchase from one of the other stores
I am betting your LGS never ordered the gun. They most likely used your money for something else.

They should be able to work a deal with one of the gun shops to trade them a gun for the one you want.

Paying in advance is not something I like to do, but sometimes that is what you have to do.

I ordered a new barrel for a rifle of mine and paid a deposit. I was under the impression the guy was going to find a barrel. Weeks went by and I heard nothing. I finally went to have a face to face and found out he had suffered a stroke. He never recovered. When they started checking his records, he had never ordered the barrel.

I could have raised a stink and got my money back but the fact is the guy was operating on a shoestring. I am not going to give the family grief over the issue.

I went to another smith and got the barrel and had it head spaced and installed and the gun is fine now.

I am not out the money you are and I don't think I would just walk away either. I think the guy flat out ripped you off and he should not get away with it.
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Old July 22, 2013, 12:38 PM   #15
Levant
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Re: shop took my money for Glock 20 can't get gun after 5 months or return my money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theohazard View Post
While I agree that the LGS should give the OP his money back, it's not unusual for shops to not offer refunds on special orders. After all, what's the point of requiring payment up front on a special order if you can change your mind at any time and get your money back?
......

I work at a large LGS.
The point of no refunds on special orders is to keep the shop from getting stuck with inventory they can't sell. If the store hasn't lost any money, they have no right to refuse the cancellation.

I generally am passionate in my support for buying from the LGSs but, from what we know in this case, this LGS is a good example of why places like Walmart and Bud's do so well.
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Old July 22, 2013, 12:52 PM   #16
ammo.crafter
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contract

Appears as if the shop failed to uphold their end of the "contact" by failure to deliver the gun.

There is a reasonable and customary time limit to satisfy a purchase.

As others have advised small claims works great and the item itself is inconsequential.

BTW, what state are you in?
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Old July 22, 2013, 12:52 PM   #17
geetarman
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If the LGS DID order the gun and it has not been delivered, they should be able to cancel the special order. . .especially after five months.

If you special order from Bud's Guns, you prepay with a CC. If you cancel the order with 90 days, there is a 10% charge and the remainder is credited to your CC. After 90 days, if you cancel, you get the full amount credited to your CC.

Five months is a bunch. Ask them to show you when the order was written and who they ordered from. I am betting they can't give you that information.
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Old July 22, 2013, 12:58 PM   #18
Theohazard
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Quote:
Levant posted
The point of no refunds on special orders is to keep the shop from getting stuck with inventory they can't sell. If the store hasn't lost any money, they have no right to refuse the cancellation.
I agree, which is why I would refund the OP's money. But I was only pointing out why it's not unusual that some shops won't do refunds on special orders.

Like I said, situations like this are the reason why many shops hate taking special orders, especially during times of huge demand and low supply.

The next time I have a customer who asks to order an item that's not in stock at any distributer and gets annoyed when I won't; instead of politely explaining why I won't like I usually do, maybe I should just show him this thread.

Sure, considering the OP doesn't seem to understand how hard it's been to get guns over the last six months, the shop should cut its losses and just refund his money. But in my opinion their biggest mistake was offering to special order something that wasn't in stock at a distributer during the biggest run on guns in history.

Good customer service should be a priority at any LGS, but sometimes you have to chose between two options, both of which may upset the customer: You can refuse to do a special order or you can do the special order and then have it take forever to come in. Either way, the customer's not going to be happy.
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Old July 22, 2013, 01:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Again but when I paid the the 35.00 $ processing fee the clerk told me the judge wouldn't do it because it was a firearm and as far a availability
For $35, it would be worth it to me to have some judge declare, in open court before a court reporter, that he simply refuses to hear cases involving firearms. Unless he has the law on his side (very hard to believe), I'd have a good 'ol time with that!
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Old July 22, 2013, 01:35 PM   #20
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The LGS shop I deal with always checks with their distributor. If the gun I want is available, they order it. If it isn't, they don't. And they ask for half the price we agree on as a downpayment. I've never paid full price on a special order. For something special, I might expect a delay like you're experiencing. But for a Glock, even an unusual one, you should not be waiting this long. And go back to Small Claims Court and if they give you that baloney about not taking the case because a gun is involved, get them show you where in writing it says they can discriminate against your claim because it's over a gun. Guns are sold in lawful commerce and are a product like any other. And while I understand the LGS might be unwilling to return your money, that's too bad. After waiting four months, especially at a price which appears to be too high, they owe you a refund. It's not like nobody's buying Glocks now; if it does come in, it will likely be sold quickly.
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Old July 22, 2013, 01:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
it's not unusual for shops to not offer refunds on special orders.
True, but it is unusual for them to want full price up front. Most want 10%-25%. Wanting full price would have been a red flag for me to shop elsewhere.
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Old July 22, 2013, 01:59 PM   #22
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I know of several shops locally who have done this. In one case, I think it's a way of them doing a no-interest loan with the customer's money.

In any case, contesting the charge with your credit card issuer is the easiest route. Unless you signed something in writing saying you agreed to wait this long, they don't have a leg to stand on.
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Old July 22, 2013, 02:12 PM   #23
SamNavy
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lightjunkie... how about you tell us the name of the store. Perhaps there's somebody on the board who has some sway and can help you out.
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Old July 22, 2013, 02:55 PM   #24
lightjunkie
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unfortunately

I paid cash and have receipt, and I am in Az I would be happy if they just sold me the gun even at the inflated price but again when I saw other local shops I asked for money backand was willing to pay restocking fee for somethiing they never even received and they refused.I askedb for store credit and they still refused. Iam afraid if I put up name they out of maliciousness may never sell me. My Glock

Last edited by lightjunkie; July 22, 2013 at 03:15 PM.
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Old July 22, 2013, 03:00 PM   #25
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I would like to know who the LGS is pulling this crap. I live in Arizona also.
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