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Old July 25, 2013, 10:40 PM   #1
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Join Date: June 14, 2013
Posts: 81
for the armchair folks

You like to tell us what to do, and what not to do. To you everything must be done a certain way. Your favorite gun writers says something, we all must do it that way.

I hate to tell you, think of the following before you speak up on what we do.

1. no reloads for self defense.
Ayoob himself has written, and been published, stated that he and his friends in law enforcement, all branches and level, have yet to see someone tried on the basis of using handloaded ammunition.

2. no lead/cast bullets for self defense.
the most favored bullets in 38 special and 357 and 44 special are cast lead hollowpoints. and they are loved for what they do downrange.

3. use only factory ammunition.

true its a good idea but not everyone can get ammo. Sure you want us to use 300 rounds to test that brand of ammo in a carry gun to ensure reliability, but it only comes in 20 round boxes friend. and if we can only buy 3 boxes of it per week, because the store only gets 1 case a week. well its going to be MONTHS before we are allowed to rely upon that weapon for self defense.
not very good when you only have one weapon. And you need it now.
"sorry, but can you please come back in a month and rape me then? I only put 200 rounds through my SD handgun, and am not supposed to rely upon it till i hit 300 rounds"

4. self defense marked ammunition.

The best bullets are used in all the lines. The xtp and deepcurl/gold dot come in hunting and self defense loads. the bullets the same, the powder charge is the same. somewhat hard to tell the difference.
The general idea of the armchair crowd is that doing so will prevent anyone from being tried for using "special super ammo'. well doesnt work that way when your using one bullet in 5 different factory loads.

5. using the same ammunition that the local police agencies use. and the same handgun.

The armchair crowd states its so that you cannot be sued or tried for using super ammunition or super duper handgun on that overly nice crackhead. well heres the counter point

"mr jones, can you prove you werent playing cop, and shot that drug addict when you tried to arrest him? we have ten letters from you asking what ammunition the local state police use, and then you went and bought a case of that ammo and that same issue handgun."

The list of your argument has a list of logical responses to your ideas. Come on, just because something doesnt make sense to you, dont knock it.

6. store bought ammo over handloads. Hmm, i have to wait 6 months to backorder on my ammunition. Or do i pick up the box i just used up, read the load data off it, buy those components ( hey i have them already) and roll my own?
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Old July 25, 2013, 10:59 PM   #2
Aguila Blanca
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Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 7,720
What makes you think that people whom you have never met, and know exactly nothing about, are "armchair" anything?

Whether or not to use reloads for personal defense/carry ammunition is a personal choice. There ARE reasons, based on admissibility of evidence, that argue against using anything other than factory ammo for personal defense. Moderator Frank Ettin, an experienced California attorney (who, coincidentally, teaches the legal portion of classes with Massad Ayoob when Mas is presenting in California), has written extensively right here on this site about precisely why using hand-loaded ammo can be a problem. It might not convict you, but there are times and circumstances when ammo-based evidence might help defend you -- and such evidence cannot be reliably developed from hand-loaded ammo.

You are free to do as you wish, but please don't think that gives you license to criticize those who recognize the risks and choose not to gamble.
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Old July 25, 2013, 11:07 PM   #3
Tom Servo
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 11,722
We've actually been down this road, and many times at that. There's a wealth of information in this thread.

If you have questions that aren't answered there, feel free to start a new thread.
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
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