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Old April 21, 2013, 11:38 PM   #1
Sirhcmarak
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DPMS Oracle AR-15 A3 - Thoughts, Concerns, & Opinions

Just purchased a DPMS Oracle. I have read AR-15's thoughts about DPMS prior to purchase and now after spending another hour or so combing thier threads I'm am a bit concerned about lifetime reliability. I am also concerned about their build procedures. My uncle just bought a Colt and the bolt carrier group feels so much better when racking a round than my DPMS. I figure I can replace the bolt carrier group in the DPMS later if need be.

Just wanted to get some feedback from my home forum, and hopefully some DPMS owners. If you have an opinion and you own another Mfg's rifle please feel free to jump in.

I bought a ton of new Magpul Furniture and Troy Industries hardware, and have yet to put it on there. Still contemplating my purchase after putting 100 rounds through it. No FTF No FTE yet.
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Old April 22, 2013, 12:43 AM   #2
Quentin2
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Well as you noticed there is a difference in quality between DPMS and Colt. Does it matter to you, honestly only you can decide that. DPMS aims for a lower price point and if you don't foresee hard use then it probably will do the job. Many of us instead paid $200-300 extra to get something we trust more. Something like Colt, BCM or Daniel Defense.

What's really confusing, over the last couple years there are companies like PSA, Spikes, Scionics, etc that offer Colt-like quality for DPMS/Bushmaster prices. As the word about these gets out more I do think quality has to go up across the board. For example, last year I bought a $700 PSA that compares very favorably with my BCM and Daniel Defense - which brings up a double edged question: why pay more when with PSA you can get similar quality for less - and more to the point: why pay the same money for DPMS when PSA gives much higher quality?

BTW, PSA (Palmetto State Armory) is made in your home state!

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Old April 22, 2013, 04:56 AM   #3
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Are you comparing a new DPMS to a used Colt when you talk about racking the charging handle? Have you disassembled, cleaned and lubed it yet?

Don't get me wrong, Colt is the higher quality of the 2, but plenty of shooters use DPMS without a problem, me included. Get out there and shoot it! Once you get some rounds through it and break it in, it will feel smoother.
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Old April 22, 2013, 07:29 AM   #4
madcratebuilder
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Run a few hundred rounds through the DPMS and it well feel much smoother. The average shooter well not really need a 4150 barrel vs the 4140 the DPMS has, and as does many other brands. The BGC may have a shorter life span, all BCG's wear out and I have seen Colt BGC's fail in the first one hundred rounds.

Go shoot it and don't worry about what the fan boys say. Keep it cleaned and lubed, feed it good ammo with good mags. Maybe buy a spare extractor and spring. It well serve you well.

If you want bragging rights (that's fine) then buy a Noveske or KAC.
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Old April 22, 2013, 09:49 AM   #5
Sasquatch in MN
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I have had quite a few DPMS variants in my collection and have had zero issues with any of them.

They get poo-pooed by the fanboys, but all mine go bang as function as expected.
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Old April 22, 2013, 10:38 AM   #6
Fishbed77
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Quote:
What's really confusing, over the last couple years there are companies like PSA, Spikes, Scionics, etc that offer Colt-like quality for DPMS/Bushmaster prices. As the word about these gets out more I do think quality has to go up across the board. For example, last year I bought a $700 PSA that compares very favorably with my BCM and Daniel Defense - which brings up a double edged question: why pay more when with PSA you can get similar quality for less - and more to the point: why pay the same money for DPMS when PSA gives much higher quality?

BTW, PSA (Palmetto State Armory) is made in your home state!
I agree.

PSA and Spikes have made lesser-quality and higher-priced brands like DPMS and Bushmaster pretty much pointless IMHO.

Last edited by Fishbed77; April 22, 2013 at 10:45 AM.
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Old April 22, 2013, 11:47 AM   #7
Quentin2
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The term fanboys comes up a lot and no doubt there is truth in the concept but remember that door swings both ways. There are plenty of fanboys that bash higher quality just because they didn't do their research before buying, or trusted someone else's opinion without putting forth some effort of their own.

Years ago there wasn't the selection we have today so certain familiar brands made sense then but it's foolish today not to look at lesser known brands like PSA and Spikes when you get so much more for the money. (That's not saying all new brands are better, there's plenty of lower quality stuff out there, you have to look for the gems.)

Anyway, DPMS/Bushmaster, etc. made sense years ago but anyone buying today should look at the wider field. Why reward companies that give less at the same price point?
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Old April 22, 2013, 01:08 PM   #8
Sasquatch in MN
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Sure enough with the door swinging both ways with fanboys. I used it to describe those that drank the brand kool-aid (pick the brand, they all have their fanboys) and refuse to acknowledge any other options that exist.

The OP asked about DMPS uppers and while my experiences have been positive, others may have different opinions. I've had nothing but positives with all my AR systems over the years that spans quite a few different manufacturers. I have casual shooters, hunting rifles, competition rifles, and defense carbines.

I look at is it available?, will it satisfy my need?, what's the price? before I look at what brand is it?

Don
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Old April 25, 2013, 11:25 AM   #9
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Well first, understand it's not a Rolex, it's a Timex. But Run a few hundred rounds through it, you'll see it's just fine. I beat the hell outta mine and ran about 30,000 rounds through it, only had to replace a hammer pin so far....

And in regards to all the Colt comparisons I always hear; last I checked the Army dropped Colt and gave Remington the contract. But Remy doesn't actually make their own AR's, but guess which two partner companies do....

Maybe mad crate or someone else can confirm or deny that, but that's the situation is I last know it
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Old April 25, 2013, 01:42 PM   #10
Quentin2
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Well first, understand it's not a Rolex, it's a Timex. But Run a few hundred rounds through it, you'll see it's just fine. I beat the hell outta mine and ran about 30,000 rounds through it, only had to replace a hammer pin so far....

And in regards to all the Colt comparisons I always hear; last I checked the Army dropped Colt and gave Remington the contract. But Remy doesn't actually make their own AR's, but guess which two partner companies do....

Maybe mad crate or someone else can confirm or deny that, but that's the situation is I last know it
Actually it's not true that Remington has the (M4) contract. Initially they won the contract but after a challenge by Colt the contract was awarded to FN which already has the M16 contract. FN knows a thing or two about military specs and certainly can make M16/M4s to spec.

Remington/Bushmaster/DPMS/etc. would have to improve their rifle significantly to meet milspec for general issue to our military. Spikes and PSA are very close to milspec yet cost about the same as "Remmaster".
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Old April 25, 2013, 02:01 PM   #11
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You're worrying too much. Just lube up the BCG and throw a few hundred rounds down range, it will break in. I had a DPMS 20" upper a few years back that would hold 1" groups at 100 yards; granted the slightly lower grade 41xx series steel may not last as long a Colt, Lother Walther, or Krieger barrel. But are you really going to throw 10,000+ rounds down range to find out? If you do get that much into shooting it, you'll want a new gun soon any way.

Shoot and enjoy.

>>FN knows a thing or two about military specs and certainly can make M16/M4s to spec.

Yeah, they're probably the premier manufacturer in the western world.

A good point was made in that the deviations in quality between ARs has diminished significantly with even the low end being reasonably acceptable.
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Old April 25, 2013, 02:10 PM   #12
SauerJackson
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Thank you Quentin2 for clearing that up. I wasn't sure if it was more comical or disturbing that they even considered Remington for that contract.....
Yes, I love my DPMS and trust it with my life. But I've seen bad ones too. I'd rather have an FN any day of the week!
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Old April 25, 2013, 07:45 PM   #13
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Thank you Quentin2 for clearing that up. I wasn't sure if it was more comical or disturbing that they even considered Remington for that contract.....
Yes, I love my DPMS and trust it with my life. But I've seen bad ones too. I'd rather have an FN any day of the week!
I was worried too when Remington initially had the contract. But they lowballed the price so Colt contested that it wasn't a reasonable bid. Colt was right but then FN's bid was lower than Colt's so Colt no longer has the M4 contract.

The military contracts have a clause preventing FN from selling AR-15s to US civilians but they can supply parts to other manufacturers. PSA uses FN barrels and probably other major components, possibly BCGs. Spikes does too. It's been rumored that BCM uses FN parts but they don't disclose this information. Anyway, it is possible to have FN quality in an AR, just look for brands like Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, PSA, Spikes and others.
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Old April 26, 2013, 07:24 AM   #14
mississaugagunnut
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Works for me

I have a DPMS Oracle with the thin profile barrel mounted on an Armalite lower. It has given me 0 problems and I shoot cheap Norinco 223 through it almost exclusively. I use it for CQB and 3 Gun competitions. I probably have about 900 rds through her already.
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Old April 26, 2013, 09:43 AM   #15
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I think up until Dec of last year when the buying spree started, Colt, BCM and a few others held a slight edge in perceived quality. Once makers started pushing ARs out as fast as they could, that 'quality' gap lessened.
I am not a 'fanboy', but I have excellent results from my S&W M&P and I have no reason to think a DMPS would not perform as well. The BCG is key and mine has all the bells and whistles, MPI, shot peened, chrome lined etc, with only the barrel steel in 4140 and not 4150 being the major difference and it is chromed lined.
I have a friend and shooting buddy who just bought the same rifle as yours and it has been better and more reliable than some bigger name brands out there. Keep your DMPS well lubed and it will provide years of service and will smooth out once you shoot it some, so enjoy and compare in six months after a couple hundred rounds, IF you can find a couple hundred rounds to shoot!
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Old April 26, 2013, 03:52 PM   #16
sailskidrive
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The military contracts have a clause preventing FN from selling AR-15s to US civilians but they can supply parts to other manufacturers.
FN can sell ARs to any one they want; they just can't use Colt's licensed Technical Data Package to produce those parts for civilian consumption. Colt's TDP is not just dimensional specs, it also includes specifications for material sourcing, production and assembly methods, as well as fixes for design issues.

I don't know why some folks balk at Remington originally winning the contract; most modern firearms manufacturers are capable of producing a Mil-Spec M4.
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Old April 26, 2013, 04:53 PM   #17
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FN can sell ARs to any one they want; they just can't use Colt's licensed Technical Data Package to produce those parts for civilian consumption. Colt's TDP is not just dimensional specs, it also includes specifications for material sourcing, production and assembly methods, as well as fixes for design issues.
Do you have a link to that? I've heard for a long time that Colt prevented FN from selling ARs commercially in the US once they got the M16 contract. At one time FN did sell ARs in small quantities, even a few semiauto lower receivers have turned up. But today they don't have an AR out there and I'd sure expect one if they were free to sell them.
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