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Old April 23, 2013, 08:43 AM   #26
2000ShadowACE
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Something that I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that revolvers are inherently less finicky about what ammo you put through them. some of the tiny semi autos do not like the big hollow point rounds all that much. I had a friend offer me a shield after his first trip to the range and he could not get it to feed the large mouthed HPs. I gave him a few of my hornadys and the gun did not jam once. My LCR has yet to jam or misfeed so I carry it almost exclusively.
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Old April 23, 2013, 08:52 AM   #27
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Cheapshooter, you said
Quote:
I think the Speer Good Dot +P Short Barrel round has narrowed the gap between the 38 Special and 357 Magnum snubbie significantly.
I love that round but it seems to me that if the Speer 135 grain .38 Special +P at 860 fps from a 2 inch barrel has narrowed the gap, the Speer 135 grain .357 at 990 fps from a 2 inch barrel is even better.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:10 AM   #28
Beentown71
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Re: narrowed it down to 4 pocket handguns.

Of your choices I would go with the Shield. I prefer the Kahr but it may get replaced by a Springer XDs 9 when they are available.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
I love that round but it seems to me that if the Speer 135 grain .38 Special +P at 860 fps from a 2 inch barrel has narrowed the gap, the Speer 135 grain .357 at 990 fps from a 2 inch barrel is even better.
But is more really better. At 13 3/4 inches of penetration for the Gold Dot vs 13 1/2 for the PDX-1, would another 135 fps from the Speer magnum round produce unwanted over penetration?
There is another video also done by ScubaOz of the 158 gr Gold Dot load from Underwood that completely passed through 20 inches of ballistic gel, one milk mug of watter, and stopped in the second. Way too much penetration, and a possibility of hitting an unintended target.
Sometimes more is not better. With the Speer Short Barrel 38+P exceeding the 12 inch standard I think would be a completely competent round for self defense in the 38+P LCR.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Don't forget that a revolver gives you the option of firing from inside the pocket.
No comment!

Quote:
The LCR for me is bulky enough that not using a holster helps it fit in some pockets, you can then "spin" it down in so no one can see it down there.
My LCR carries inconspicuously , and safely in a DeSantis Nemisis pocket holster in most pants pockets. In those that it doesn't, only my Elsie Pea is truly concealable.
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:09 AM   #31
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Cheapshooter, why the alarmed reaction?

I doubt craZivn was recommending shooting from the pocket. I think he meant if you get jumped, and are unable to draw because the BG is all over you, a revolver in the jacket pocket could still be fired multiple times, where most semis would jam after the first shot.

On a similar note, the revolver won't get pushed out of battery if you are nose to nose and shove the muzzle into the BG.

Personally, I prefer autos (1911, P7, P01) for belt carry, but use a 442 for pocket.
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:17 AM   #32
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For pocket carry, I use a 642 - in a Desantis - and it blends in better than any bottom feeder, even my Kahr CM-9. The human body has no square or flat surfaces, like a semi so the roundness of a revolver just disappears better in cargo pocket shorts or similar. I don't like firing 357 from ym K frame, no way would I want to shoot a light snub - isn't worth the extra cost, no real benefit ballistically
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:27 AM   #33
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Touching on just the two LCRs, if you are going to carry 38s regardless, I'd recommend getting the .38 version. I had both, and I really felt the extra weight of the .357 LCR in my Docker-style pockets. The .38 LCR felt truly light.

I kept the .357 LCR because I like to carry magnums, but the extra weight in the pocket makes it bounce around a lot more.

As for the Shield, it's larger than my Nano and P290RS, which are already at the limit of size I can comfortably get out of my Docker-style pockets in a reasonably fast motion.

For me, it's how fast I can get it OUT of the pocket, not IN. The LCR does come out nicely, being well contoured and snag free. Especially with the boot grip instead of the Tamer grip.
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:30 AM   #34
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With regard to .357 in snubs, I don't really like it in the SP101, which is a half pound heavier than the LCR, so I have absolutely no desire to shoot .357 from a 15-17oz revolver.

Call me a wimp.

Edit: OTOH, this is what I carry in my 442; I don't mind shooting this at the range, either, in limited amounts (due to cost, not recoil):

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=108

Quote:
Item 20A: 158gr., very soft cast, semi wad cutter, (Keith) hollow cavity, with a gas check. This bullet will mushroom violently on impact and will penetrate roughly 14 inches in human flesh. Again, this bullet is gas checked and will not lead your barrel.

S&W mod. 60, 2 inch- 1040 fps (379 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66, 2.5 inch- 1059 fps (393 ft. lbs.)
Ruger SP101, 3 inch- 1143 fps (458 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1162 fps (474 ft. lbs.)
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
Yes, but I'd be hard pressed to explain it. It feels to me like the LCR sits lower in the hand and has fewer 'unfriendly surfaces' for lack of a better term. I found it to be one of the easier-shooting 357 snubs I've fired.. but I'm OK with a 2 1/4" SP101 and 200 grain bear loads, too.

An awful lot of this recoil stuff is subjective. I shot two mags of 9x18 ball through a P63 awhile back... bit the inside of my big ol' thumb knuckle hard enough to draw blood. I hated the dang thing.
I get it. About like me and .380's. I shot a little Llama .380 (scaled down 1911) and a magazine full was all I wanted. Whereas the little Bodyguard .380, which is both smaller and lighter, is one I regularly practice with and find no discomfort at all in shooting it. An Officer's length .45 is fun, that Llama .380 was not!
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Old April 23, 2013, 12:05 PM   #36
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here is my line of thought, im a big guy. not that tall but built like a tank. most bad guys will look at me and move on to a weaker target imo. if they do decide to attack me chances are they will be huge. there are a lot of muscled up bad guys here. jails are full of them.

12 or 13 inches of penetration in the jell isn't enough imo. thats minimum based on average size humans in the country? like i said there are many down here who are well above average. after countless videos i like these for when i get a lcr .357. that is if i can find the gun or ammo. well here is .357 in a snub @ just over 18 inches of penetration and good expansion. good old hydra shok:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16m0j...qI0a7&index=23

38 spl +p hs can't expand from a snub:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypApt...qI0a7&index=18
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Old April 23, 2013, 12:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
The catch--only shoot .38s out of it.
No point in carrying a .357 in that case. Carry the .38 sp LCR, it's smaller and lighter than the .357.
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Old April 23, 2013, 01:02 PM   #38
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Speaking of the 158gr LSHCHP FBI load, does anybody have any ballistic information on the discontinued CCI Blazer Aluminum in that loading. I happened on a great deal on a case of it a couple years back, and couldn't turn it down for $6.50/box! Still have most of it, and until I can find the Speer Short Barrel it is what I carry in my LCR when it has been my choice from my CCW rotation. CCI no longer lists this load, nor any velocity information for it, and my chrony is on the fritz.
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Old April 23, 2013, 01:47 PM   #39
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The easiest to conceal will be the LCP. It will probably be the worst to shoot. Not necessarily painful, but certainly tedious as heck with those pimple sights. The 357 LCR actually gives you the advantage of using 38sp in a heavier frame. I am not familiar with the s&w. Of the 3 rugers, I'd go with the 357 LCR.
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Old April 23, 2013, 02:02 PM   #40
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Try to draw quickly while sitting down....... Not happening
(Think car jacking...... Or how much time you are really standing)

Try to draw if the fight is on the ground............ Not happening


If I HAD to pocket carry....... It would be an LCR38

I really wanted my CM9 to be a pocket carry, ...... But after practicing the Tueller drill, I am MUCH faster with a IWB carry, then pocket carry


I have a Shield...... Love it. Its too big for pocket carry

I used to pocket carry, now I 100% IWB....
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Old April 23, 2013, 02:08 PM   #41
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I must beg to differ, sir.

Drawing from a hsoulder holster is just as quick when sitting as when standing.

As is drawing from a coat or jaket pocket.

Perhaps more importantly, proper situational awarenes should obviate the need to draw quickly at all.
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Old April 23, 2013, 04:57 PM   #42
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Imo, a "true" pocket gun should be as light and as small as possible, along with being utterly reliable and as powerful as practical (given the size and weight constraints, it would seem that the .380 ACP fits the bill better than most others). For me, the "ideal" pocket pistol is the Ruger LCP.
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Old April 23, 2013, 08:42 PM   #43
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I find the KLCR 357 to be slightly better for pocket carry over my LC9 I have carried either one for extended periods. When I am carrying the LC9 in my pocket the LCR is in a holster in between the seat and console in my truck or vice versa. If my wife is with me and we are going any long distance she keeps her LCR in between the console and seat and I make do with a NAA 22 mag on my side for backup.
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:18 PM   #44
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Ben...... You do realize the OP refers to pocket carry? Right?

Not shoulder holsters.....
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:56 AM   #45
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I am really liking the LCR .357mag. I would just load .38 specials in it to make it more managable in such a light frame.
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Old April 24, 2013, 01:12 PM   #46
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Quote:
I am really liking the LCR .357mag. I would just load .38 specials in it to make it more managable in such a light frame.
Don't quite understand this line of thinking. With the 38spcl being a noticable to me 1/4 pound lighter, and still very controlable with the 158gr + P LSWCHP "FBI" loads I have shot through it, I really don't see the need for the extra weight, and cost of the 357. Other than to just have It in 357. Also, the ballistic gel tests of the Speer Good Dot +P Short Barrel rounds showing very impressive performance equalling that of some 357 Magnum offerings reinforce my decision to get the 38Spcl LCR.
One other point that could be made is that the stainless steel frame of the 357 is more durable than the aluminum 38Spcl frame. Being that my LCR isn't a range gun with t;he potentil of thousands of rounds being shot in a relative short time frame I don't feel It matters much. Most likely several hundred rounds person year will be shot through my LCR in practice, not several thousand.
But of course personal choice is why ice dream comes in chocooate, and vanilla, isn't It?
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Old April 24, 2013, 01:22 PM   #47
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The problem with using .38 +P miracle rounds instead of standard .357 is that ammo on the shelves is limited, and we gotta shoot what we can get our paws on. Right now .357 JHP is easier to come by than super-powered .38 +P rounds, at least here in central Wi.

Around here I find .357 practice ammo in stock more often than .38, so I'm glad I have the option of using the larger caliber. Once the ammo frenzy cools down things will get back to normal, but I'd hate to be stuck without range time at all until then.

Ivan
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Old April 26, 2013, 04:17 PM   #48
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I tried to pocket carry a Smith 637, but didn't like the feel and find I'm far more accurate with a semi and if you need to reload, there's no way a revolver can be recharged faster than a semi ... my EDC is a Kahr PM9, you might look into that line, mine has been perfect for 10 years ...

Somebody recommended the FBI load ... I loaded the 637 with those, fired two and needed a week for my hand to recover ... saved them for my 686+ ... a lightweight gun and heavy loads simply don't mix for me ..
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Old April 26, 2013, 04:26 PM   #49
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I've been pocket carrying for years, only had to draw twice. Both times the simple shock of seeing the pistol helped the goblins decide that they had pressing business elsewhere. Both times I was left standing on the street, wondering where everyone went. Yeah, I let the cops know, and they took my statement, but I was never hassled over the decision to draw.

My pocket pistol is either a J-frame Smith, or a Ruger LCP.
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Old April 27, 2013, 12:22 AM   #50
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Paw Paw, what was it you had to draw? A Smith? Was wondering if they fled at the sight of an LCP. That would be good to know...
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