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Old April 21, 2013, 01:11 PM   #1
Haz251
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Help with picking a new pump

So I'm starting a new job next month which means 1 thing: NEW TOYS! I was planning on a 357 but since there's no handgun ammo around imma pick up a new 12 gauge. Here's what I'm looking for preferably a 20 inch barrel, ghost rings, I'm thinking either a short LOP or a fixed A2 style stock, drilled and tapped for rail and side saddle. And it must be able to fire slugs. I like the Winchester but how is the aftermarket availability for it? I like the 870 over any mossberg. So right now it's between those 2 unless any of you shotty aficiodios can point me towards something better. Maybe a benelli? Max I don't wanna spend more than 600 and even that kinda breaks my heart for a shotgun. This is gonna be my fun in the backyard gun and I've had the urge to bag a whitetail here lately so it may head out in the woods with me too. Thanks guys
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Old April 21, 2013, 05:51 PM   #2
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Id check out a Mossberg 590A1.....you can just tell when you pick it up it was designed by serious people for serious duty. Remington 870 is also great, but I think Benellis are overpriced.
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Old April 21, 2013, 10:10 PM   #3
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I'd go mossberg or did that is. I own three. Dead reliable. One of them has about 4000 rds through it without a hitch.

My second would be the Remi 870. Quality is high in most cases, but, I'd check the chamber in it though, because I've seen two of the newer 870's that had ruff chambers. All they needed was a very little polish to stop the cases from sticking, but it's worth checking.

The Mossy is tuffer and easier to load. The Remi is smoother and maybe slightly fast but only a little.

There are several good guns it your price range, but I know these two the best.

Good luck Boomer
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Old April 21, 2013, 10:55 PM   #4
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Thx for the input so far guys. Another question. And u guys may knock me as a lil dumb for this but ive always been a handgun/bolt guy so my shotgun expertise is still growing. Exactly what type of choke would I use for slugs?
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Old April 23, 2013, 09:33 AM   #5
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Can't go wrong with an 870. Since it sounds like you want to do a fair amount of customization, I'd just find any 870, used if possible, since you will basically be replacing everything but the receiver.

Here's mine:

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Old April 23, 2013, 10:01 AM   #6
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I have not taken any pictures yet, but I picked up an Ithica 37 20" 7+1 shot with walnut furniture. Empty it is 6.7#...full of 2 3/4 Buckshot it weighs the same as an 870 empty @ 7.5# Those weights are without any of the tacti-cool accessories that can be added.

I have a few 37's and gave my 870 to my dad a few months ago. I prefer the 37, as the action is much more smooth, the weight is less (in spite of being all wood and steel) the trigger is more crisp and I have a 1947 version that has been through all kinds of crappy conditions and has never had as much as a mechanical hiccup.

The so called "tactical reload" is different than the remington, as the ejection and loading are from the bottom and takes some getting used too. My 5 shot Ithica only weighs 6.3# empty and 6.8# full. May not be everyone's cup of tea...but it was a 200 dollar purchase from a retired cop who had it since 1975 and only put about 100 rounds through her.
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:07 AM   #7
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I've never gotten lucky enough to find a good condition 37. I never knew it weighed less than the 870 (I'm a conscious man when it comes to my load out weight) and if anything I woulda figured otherwise.
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
And u guys may knock me as a lil dumb for this but
The only dumb question is the one not asked.

Quote:
Exactly what type of choke would I use for slugs?
The one that groups the tightest in your gun, with your slugs. Slugs are soft enough to fit in a full choke, I would not use an x-full choke. Shoot 'em and see what works best.

Also you might want to try a rifled choke. Some people get better results, some don't. If you will not be going for the long shots it might not matter. If you are going long range ( for slugs) you might also consider a rifled barrel.
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:02 AM   #9
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On the choke deal...I like to just keep a cylinder bore. As with hunting loads, pattern the gun with whatever buckshot you plan on running, at the likely distances you will encounter. For the slugs, check for point of impact vs point of aim at whichever distances you believe you may encounter.

Keep life simple, run as many rounds through whichever gun you get, and take pride in every wear mark you put on your gun.
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Old April 24, 2013, 01:50 PM   #10
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I was in your shoes not too long ago, looking at a purely SD shotgun. Mossberg and Remington are the two default suggestions. I handled the Moss and didn't like the way it felt, so it was out of the running. I thought the Rem was going to be it until I came across the Benelli Nova. For those that think Benellis are expensive or overpriced...a basic Rem 870 goes for $360 at my local Sportsman Warehouse, the Nova goes for $380. If your goal is to make the gun tacticool, the Rem will definitely give you more and cheaper options. If you want a simple, quality shotgun out of the box, look at the Nova (and SuperNova, for an additional $80). Keep this in mind:

Light attached to gun (movies) - flip the light switch in your room/house (real life)

Rail/Side Saddle for 10+ shots (movies) - if you can't stop the intruder in 5 shotgun blasts, you're toast anyway (real life)

Good luck with your choice.
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Old April 24, 2013, 03:23 PM   #11
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Wow I wished I lived in your world where lights always worked and only for me, and where all gun fights were over in 5 shots.

"Real life" is that you don't know what will happen. I may get one person who politely waits while I find the light switch and have a cup of coffee, or I might get 5 people who break in during an emergency to kill me and steal my stuff.
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Old April 24, 2013, 03:35 PM   #12
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or I might get 5 people who break in during an emergency to kill me and steal my stuff.
Sounds like you need to rethink how your house is set up to prevent that then...., because that scenario sounds more like a video game than real life
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Old April 24, 2013, 03:37 PM   #13
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Obviously the weapon is a last resort, and if anyone has broken in and you are forced to use lethal force, multiple other systems have failed. I just don't see why I would want to limit myself based on one hypothetical scenario that someone on the Internet has decided is going to be the one he gets.

If someone wants to get into your house badly enough, nothing is going to stop them.

I'd also encourage you to research current crime trends. Over are the days of one guy breaking in and running when he hears the 12 gauge. Increasingly common are groups breaking in and going directly to the bedroom.
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Old April 24, 2013, 03:52 PM   #14
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I'm kinda with scotch on this 1. While I don't utilize a shotgun for HD nor do I plan to I fully understand the firearms potential and its set backs. It's biggest setback is capacity. When you pick your shotgun up in an emergency your carrying all the ammo you get right there in or on the gun. No extra mags to throw in your pocket. Some shells maybe but shells are big and heavy so you're not going to fit many. And that light on the end of your gun is designed to do a lot more than just help you see. It's made to disorient and blind your target that's why it's well over 100 lumens and has a seizure inducing strobe. Your overhead light won't do that.
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Old April 24, 2013, 03:59 PM   #15
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How many times in the last year, two years, five years, have you flipped the light switch and it remained dark? In my world, the lights in my house generally work. If one bulb goes out, there's a lamp or another light switch not too far away. It's amazing to me how folks imagine these SD scenarios playing out. Are you really intending to use your flashlight as a blinding or seizure-inducing device when there's an intruder in your home? LOL. I guess only you can decide whether the probability of having no light in the house is worth the gun being weighed down with excessive accessories. Some of us like tacticool, some of us like simple. If you want to prepare for the absolute worst case scenario and that makes you sleep better at night, more power to you. "I might get 5 people who break in during an emergency to kill me and steal my stuff." Are you kidding me? Ask yourself this, what do you have in your home that enough bad guys know about and would want to come and rob? Most burglaries are committed by one or two part-time thieves. I'm talking Home Alone rather than Ocean's 11/12/13.

Last edited by Pipeline; April 24, 2013 at 04:45 PM.
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Old April 24, 2013, 04:06 PM   #16
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I have 400$ in my pocket right now that could buy the town druggies 2 high grade 8 balls of cocaine. That what's in my pocket. What else could they possibly want from my house? My t.v., my meds, my guns, etc.... I don't plan on turning my overhead light on during a break in. Nor am I counting on a break in but stuff happens. I'm getting a light so I can do some night shooting but the fact that I can utilize it as a tool to my advantage and not theirs is a very valuable one. And that extra weight on the end of my gun from a light is 6 ounces max. Now in an adrenaline induced situation where I may employ the light that 6 ounces is going to be weightless.
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Old April 24, 2013, 04:09 PM   #17
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Obviously the weapon is a last resort, and if anyone has broken in and you are forced to use lethal force, multiple other systems have failed. I just don't see why I would want to limit myself based on one hypothetical scenario that someone on the Internet has decided is going to be the one he gets.

If someone wants to get into your house badly enough, nothing is going to stop them.
Then you would be better with a good dog and an AR
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Old April 24, 2013, 04:11 PM   #18
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I got my full blooded Shepard and she's my big baby. And for home defense I have my handgun. This shotgun is once again gonna be my fun gun. And it may hit the woods with me.
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Old April 24, 2013, 04:12 PM   #19
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Scotch how do you like that Magpul stock?
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Old April 24, 2013, 05:29 PM   #20
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Another question. If I get a plain Jane model with just a bead how do I put in new sights. I'd like ghost rings but I may settle for rifle sights. Thx for all the input guys.
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Old April 25, 2013, 09:01 AM   #21
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This kind of reminds me of people who carry a gun for defense but criticize people who carry back up guns. You are protecting against the possibility of an incredibly unlikely event, but if someone is a little more prepared than you, you criticize them. Having a light and extra ammo is just more prepared. Is it unnecessary? Maybe. But maybe the whole exercise is unnecessary. Where is the line? Can I have a second shotgun ready to go next to the first one? Body armor? There is no right answer. It is all just what one wants to be prepared for. Saying that you won't need something is just naive.

I do know that crime trends indicate that "Most burglaries are committed by one or two part-time thieves" is not something you want to count on anymore. Is it possible? Sure. It's all probabilities. If I can throw some extra shells, why the hell wouldn't I? Why have a gun at all if we are just going by the "most likely" case? It's very unlikely any of us will ever need to use a gun in defense. THAT is the most likely case.

As for the light, I think you are just a tactical disaster here. I would recommend you take a class or read a book. I really don't mean any offense, but this is like the guy who doesn't load his gun because he thinks the sound will scare away the bad guy. There are so many scenarios I could list in which using a WML would be superior to trying to make your way to a light switch and giving everyone present the advantage of the light. Assuming it does work. Sure your lights have consistently worked for years. And you have consistently not been attacked. Maybe there is a connection between power and public services working, and home invasions remaining low? Look up what happened during Hurricane Katrina, although I suspect you already know and you are just choosing to ignore it because that isn't the scenario you have prepared for. This is just representative of very close-minded thinking. Again, if I have a light, what am I hurting? It just covers more possible needs.
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Old April 25, 2013, 09:06 AM   #22
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Haz251, I really really like the Magpul gear. The stock is the most comfortable I have used, and is customizable for length and they sell cheek riser kits. I recommend getting the sling mount at the same time as it installs in place of one of the pieces they include with the stock. It is a huge improvement over the normal stock, and I much prefer it to the telescoping AR-style stocks (I don't really want a pistol grip on my shotgun). I highly recommend them.

As for your sights question, there are many sights that epoxy on top of the bead sight. The rear sight usually needs to be installed by a gunsmith, which is a permanent-type thing. I'd prefer a rail in the rear so I can swap out the site if I want, or put on an optic.

Since you mentioned wanting a rail and side saddle, I would look into Mesa Tactical's offerings. They have rails which are short for an optic, or full-length for standard AR-style BUISs. Then they can also include a side saddle. If you got the one pictured below, you would have your rail and side saddle covered in one stop, and could put on any sites you wanted.

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Old April 25, 2013, 10:42 AM   #23
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Hey, whatever floats your boat...

http://www.combat-shotgun.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=335
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Old April 25, 2013, 01:05 PM   #24
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Thx for the input guys. Think imma go with a 870 police model. Just gotta find one now. And thx for the input on the Magpul stock scotch. It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for: adjustable comfy with a single point sling. And I'm def gonna throw a rail on top the receiver. Maybe put an aimpoint up there one day.
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Old April 25, 2013, 02:09 PM   #25
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Since you said you didn't like Mossberg as much as the 870; I'd recommend trying to find a nice used 870 Police.

You should able to find one for $300-350. That would leave you with plenty of money for accessories.
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