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Old December 28, 2012, 06:43 PM   #1
stormin1155
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Very good article on AWB written by a Democrat!

One of the best articles on this topic I've read. Especially hard hitting since it is written by democrat. I also find the comments at the end interesting. His approach seems to get through to left-leaning people who most often respond to gun issues at an emotional rather than logical level.


http://kontradictions.wordpress.com/...-ill-tell-you/
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Old December 28, 2012, 07:39 PM   #2
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This is a good article and worth the read and consideration.

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Old December 28, 2012, 10:57 PM   #3
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Add that article to the one by Larry Correia, and you have some of the best talking points available.
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Old December 28, 2012, 11:13 PM   #4
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The author's estimate of 1.5 million AR-15's in civilian hands is much lower than the estimates I've seen, which range from 8 to 20 million.

Other than that small quibble, a very well-written and organized article. Other gun bloggers could learn a lot from that guy.
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Old December 29, 2012, 02:16 AM   #5
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If I read the article correct Tom, it was an estimate of 1.5 million ARs during implementation of the 94 AWB.

Edit: Favorite write up on future AWBs I've read so far.
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Old December 29, 2012, 02:26 AM   #6
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The author's estimate of 1.5 million AR-15's in civilian hands is much lower than the estimates I've seen, which range from 8 to 20 million.
He's referring to 1994 numbers. I'm sure it's gone up quite a bit since then.
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Old December 29, 2012, 10:42 AM   #7
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I read somewhere that in CA, there are 800,0000 that are under the radar of their laws.
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Old December 29, 2012, 03:38 PM   #8
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What do you mean by under the radar in CA? Like they "dont" have a bullet button or something?
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Old December 29, 2012, 04:51 PM   #9
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Here's a short description of the laws:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...ssault_weapons

EBRs should have been registered. However, many that were estimated to be sold in the state before the law weren't registered. It is doubted that many thousands were sold out of state.
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Old December 30, 2012, 04:38 AM   #10
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Erm, I understand my states laws. I was simply asking what you meant. I figure a lot of people simply put bullet buttons on when they go out in public
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:32 PM   #11
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Here's another well written and thoughtful article by an established liberal writer. You will notice that not once does Sam Harris mention the 2A, yet he accurately describes why all this gun-grabbing blather will not do anything other than irritate the lawful American.

The Riddle of the Gun : Sam Harris
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Old January 6, 2013, 01:45 PM   #12
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Thanks, Al - that is a great article.

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Old January 6, 2013, 05:14 PM   #13
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Great reads, all posters. Thanks. I'd encourage everyone to take the time to read these.
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Old January 6, 2013, 08:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Thanks, Al - that is a great article.
It was, until the point at which he called for stricter gun laws while admitting they'd have little or no effect on crime.

That's the crux of what we're going through now. Most of the folks pushing various sorts of controls in the wake of Sandy Hook know their laws will do little beyond punishing the law-abiding, but they push them anyway.

I might be a little less disgusted by their morbid attempts to turn tragedy into political capital if I thought their motives were more noble.
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Old January 6, 2013, 11:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Getting a gun license could be made as difficult as getting a license to fly an airplane, requiring dozens of hours of training. I would certainly be happy to see policy changes like this. In that respect, I support much stricter gun laws. But I am under no illusions that such restrictions would make it difficult for bad people to acquire guns illegally. Given the level of violence in our society, the ubiquity of guns, and the fact that our penitentiaries function like graduate schools for violent criminals, I think sane, law-abiding people should have access to guns. In that respect, I support the rights of gun owners.
Tom, I suspect you are referring to the bolded part above? Which, if taken entirely out of context does say what you imply.

I just didn't read it quite that way.
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Old January 6, 2013, 11:14 PM   #16
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For some reason, my cynical little brain seems to zoom in on that sort of thing.
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Old January 7, 2013, 02:12 AM   #17
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After reading it, I immediately picked up on it too. However, I think it was just him throwing a bone to his traditional crowd.
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Old January 7, 2013, 09:15 AM   #18
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I've already sent this to couple of anti's, they stop reading when he compares gun violence to drowning.
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Old January 7, 2013, 10:30 AM   #19
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I sent the article to some and got flack on the defense against tyranny part being stupid and the training. I don't like the defense against tyranny part at all. I do like people getting trained to carry - I think that is a moral imperative. Requiring it is something that I go around on at time.

I do like the beginning though.

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Old January 7, 2013, 10:44 AM   #20
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I haven't read the article yet.

While I own an AR-15, I am sure I could live without it. If someone offers me enough, I'll sell it and probably won't replace it.

Nonetheless, I oppose a ban on this and similar weapons because . . .

When a substantial portion of your population wants something, or wants to do something, all making it illegal does is create a new business opportunity for organized crime and gangs. They do business with violence and bribery. They spread death and corruption. They destroy our society.

Alcohol destroys many people and their families. Prohibition did not arise out of thin air. However, the effects of prohibition were even worse than the abuse of alcohol, and we were wise to abandon the experiment.

Drugs do the same. However, the War on Drugs has been a failure. All we've done is increase the level of violence and employ a lot more cops.

There are laws against gambling and prostitution. They don't work. They just fill the coffers of criminal organizations, corrupt officials and make society worse.

Banning semi-automatic rifles is going to do the same thing. So will doing anything that makes them difficult to own.

It's a big mistake.
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
. I do like people getting trained to carry - I think that is a moral imperative. Requiring it is something that I go around on at time.
Mr. Meyer, I kick this around in my head also. The crux I always face is the fact that millions of people in the US are raised with guns from the day they are born. They, my self included here, don't really "need" to be trained by a "profesional" to own a gun.

I am not saying that taking a training class couldn't improve ones skills, just that begining type training is a waste of time for some people.

How does a government set a level of training that would qualify someone to own firearms? Is a basic pistol/rifle safety class enough? Would a hunters saftey course be enough? Is military service enough? Or do we need to require advaced courses of the type Gunsite offers?

I have taken the NRA basic pistol course to qualify for my States CCw permit, and must say that it didn't really offer me any more training that I have recieved through a liftime of useing and handeling guns.

We go down a slippery slope when government starts requireing specific education in-order to exercise a right. The individual should be left to make those decisions. We sure aren't going to require a voting rights class for all 18 year olds before they can go to the polls, are we?
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Old January 7, 2013, 12:41 PM   #22
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Polls, not pole - mandating training is an interesting issue. I do think people benefit in TX from the information about discretion in using force.

Perhaps, when you get your CHL - they should give you a CD with the info.

Good training is more than basic gun handling, it includes how and when to use lethal force. It also includes scenario training which is more than gun handling.

Mandating it is a different story. I do like people who get CHLs to have exposure to the laws and conflict resolution.
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Old January 7, 2013, 01:46 PM   #23
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Haha, Poles vs. polls! Fixed that little goof.

It is like anything having to do with education: People who want to gather knowledge, seek it out, whether said education has to do with voting or gun ownership.

Requirements of licensing and tests of skill are cover. Just because Joe Citizen passed his driving test, dosen't mean he can drive worth a hoot! The same as testing ones proficiancy with a rifle doesn't mean that they won't ever use it in a crime.

I often feel like we are spinning our wheels as a nation. Gun laws are like reving the engine when stuck. The engine makes a lot of noise and sounds really cool, but when it gets down to it, we are still stuck.
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Old January 7, 2013, 04:49 PM   #24
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The problem with mandatory training for owning or carrying a gun is that there is zero evidence that it reduces or mitigates either gun-related accidents or crime.
Not to mention that this way of thinking:
Quote:
Getting a gun license could be made as difficult as getting a license to fly an airplane, requiring dozens of hours of training.
obviously leads to the suspicion that the intent behind the training requirement is to restrict gun ownership to "the right sort of people."

There is also the issue of requiring training for the exercise of a specifically enumerated Constitutional right.
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Old January 7, 2013, 09:41 PM   #25
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one of the most articulate analyses of the real fallacy behind the gun-ban mindset i've ever read. Who is this guy Kontra?
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