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Old April 9, 2013, 08:25 PM   #1
nfafan
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Remington takes the money from NY/Pentagon deal

Remington would rather have private 2A ownership ES & Die than pass up the coin;

http://www.wham1180.com/pages/localn...ticle=11042313

I wouldn't buy anything that had Remmy's name on it, let alone the cure for cancer from them.
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Old April 9, 2013, 08:26 PM   #2
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I got a "Page Not Found," so try this link: http://www.wham1180.com/pages/localn...ticle=11042313
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Old April 9, 2013, 08:58 PM   #3
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I got the same error.

Edit-

Spats' link worked. I'm disappointed that Remington found this to be the best option, however, I'm glad those employees won't lose their jobs. Tough call IMHO. Still, I believe this is enough to persuade me to drop a little extra coin on a Winchester Model 70 when I go to buy a bolt action. Also makes me glad I bought a Mossberg instead of an 870.
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Old April 9, 2013, 09:41 PM   #4
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Not really happy but a good product is a good product.
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Old April 9, 2013, 10:00 PM   #5
Spats McGee
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While it might seem tempting to want every 2A/firearms related business to pull out of all of the restrictive jurisdictions, let's also bear this in mind: When businesses stay in those jurisdictions, they create jobs in those jurisdictions. They pay people in those jurisdictions, and those people go out and vote.
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Old April 9, 2013, 10:06 PM   #6
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"They pay people in those jurisdictions, and those people go out and vote."

And in New York, as we have repeatedly seen over the years, that doesn't mean a heap of ox dung.

I'm through with Remington. I've got nearly a dozen Remington rifles and shotguns in my safe, and was looking at possibly adding a couple more.

There are other companies that are more deserving of my money.
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Old April 9, 2013, 10:50 PM   #7
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That kinda sucks for me . I was already putting money aside for my next 2 rifles . A 700 and a 336 . The 700 is really no big deal but I really had my heart set on a 30-30 SS 336 .

It may suck but a companies pulling out of a anti state canceling or not signing a contract is to harm that state . jobs lost , tax's lost money poring in to the local economy lost is the whole point . If everybody's hands are held and there is no impact . There is no reason too.

There shall be no Remingtons in my safe .
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Old April 9, 2013, 11:03 PM   #8
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I certainly don't blame Remington for their decision. It's a win/win for them and I only see people buying more of their guns than they can even handle producing. Will this negatively affect them when the demand decreases (hopefully in a year or so)? Only time will tell.

We must also consider that Remington is owned by a massive investment company with assets nearing $20B. When the small guys walk into the room, I'm sure it's the big guys' words coming out of their mouths.

That being said, I don't personally own any Remys and don't plan on it anytime soon. There are plenty of other manufacturers at similar price points with excellent products out there.
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Old April 10, 2013, 01:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
I'm through with Remington. I've got nearly a dozen Remington rifles and shotguns in my safe, and was looking at possibly adding a couple more.

There are other companies that are more deserving of my money.
I will acquire my first Remington product in about 5 days (the deal has already been arrange and finalized). However, it was made in 1947. It's not that I had anything against them in the past. It's just that I always found another company's product to be more to my liking.

Though this isn't a direct "stab in the back" to the gun community, I do agree that I will consciously avoid their products in the future.


I've lost faith in Marlin and H&R, under Remington's ownership. So, that pretty much seals the deal. Those poor subsidiaries....
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Old April 10, 2013, 01:26 AM   #10
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Remington takes the money from NY/Pentagon deal

Wow. I was a week away from an 1100. Hello Beretta!
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Old April 10, 2013, 08:41 AM   #11
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Doesn't Remington have other facilities? One further south on the east coast -- North or South Carolina. And their ammo plant in Lone Oak, Arkansas. That contract for the sniper rifles is a BIG deal, and if they need that Ilion, NY, facility to "git'er done", then I have problem with that. Our boys who will be using them, need them. Business decisions are based first on the bottom line, then other things. In the mean time, things can be done to attempt to turn around the stupidity that we have been watching occur in NY, CO, and CT. And maybe soon to happen in foggy bottom.
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Old April 10, 2013, 08:44 AM   #12
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Yes, they have an ammo plant in Lonoke, AR.
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Old April 10, 2013, 10:09 AM   #13
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I've driven by that plant a few times. However, there is nothing Remington makes that cannot be substituted for.

My view - if you buy Remington products made in NY - then you enable Remington to pay taxes to the state government and support their efforts to ban and confiscate guns.

Did Remington release statements denouncing the SAFE act and perhaps contribute to efforts to defeat it? Pledge to continue the fight against it?
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Old April 10, 2013, 10:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
Did Remington release statements denouncing the SAFE act and perhaps contribute to efforts to defeat it? Pledge to continue the fight against it?
Not to my knowledge, and that's an excellent point.
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Old April 10, 2013, 10:18 AM   #15
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If not, as with SW, their civilian (bad term) sales can dry up. There are plenty of bolt action guns. Plenty of other shotguns - certainly tons of 1911s.

I think it has come to the point that if you make guns for the civilian SD and RKBA markets - you cannot morally stay in one of the ban states UNLESS you overtly and in public denounce those laws and contribute to the campaigns of progun candidates and organizations - publicly.

If businesses are ruled by the bottom line totally that is as unacceptable as US firms that had a history of business with the Germans after the rise of he whose name cannot mentioned (not Voldy).

We see organizations wanting to divest in firms that do business with Israel, oil producers, gun companies, etc. It is a way to reasonably express yourself.
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Old April 10, 2013, 10:27 AM   #16
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Remington takes the money from NY/Pentagon deal

Wow. Unfortunate.
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Old April 10, 2013, 10:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Doesn't Remington have other facilities? One further south on the east coast -- North or South Carolina. And their ammo plant in Lone Oak, Arkansas. That contract for the sniper rifles is a BIG deal, and if they need that Ilion, NY, facility to "git'er done", then I have problem with that. Our boys who will be using them, need them.
I have similar thoughts on this and I have developed a very keen distrust of everything published by the media so I want more real evidence before I get bent by something like this.

I'll be looking into this some to see just what the details are on this contract and let you guys know what I find.

OK, Nothing has been awarded to Remington between 12 March and Yesterday. The day following the award of any contract over $6.5 Million by the DoD it is posted here.
http://www.defense.gov/contracts/

So far I find nothing.

Since the news article was posted 8 March I'll have to see if I can find the archives.

Found it, 11 March.
Quote:
Remington Arms Co., LLC., Madison, N.C., is being awarded a ten year, indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity, firm-fixed-price contract for the purchase of the precision sniper rifle (PSR) system for U.S. Special Operations forces. The estimated contract value is $79,717,783. The maximum quantities for this requirement are projected to be 5,150 PSR systems and 4,696,800 rounds of ammunition. The work will be performed at Remington facilities in Ilion, N.Y., and Elizabethtown, Ky., and the ammunition at Barnes Bullets facility, Mona, Utah. The expected completion date is March 7, 2023. The contracting activity is U.S. Special Operations Command, MacDill Air Force Base, Fla., (H92222-13-D-0003).
EDITED: By this Wiki Link I see On March 8, 2013, the Remington announced that the Modular Sniper Rifle won the contract, beating out the Sako TRG M10. March 8th was also the day of the news article and the 11th was the next business day so the day DoD posted the award.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Sniper_Rifle

Anyway, there it is.
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Old April 10, 2013, 11:34 AM   #18
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The Remington heirarchy probably lacks the authority to move or issue a statement on the CT gun control legislation. Remington is one company of a larger conglomerate. Cerberus Capital Management owns Freedom Group which in turns owns Remington.

After the fall out from Sandy Hook Cerberus decided to divest itself of Freedom Group.

Quote:
U.S. private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management is selling its investment in gunmaker Freedom Group, which makes a type of rifle used in a U.S. school massacre last week, following pressure from a major investor.

The California State Teachers' Retirement System (CalSTRS) said on Monday it was reviewing its investment with Cerberus in the wake of Friday's shooting in Newtown, Connecticut which claimed 27 lives, including 20 school children.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50234921/n...hool-shooting/

http://www.cerberuscapital.com/news/...edom_group_inc

http://www.minyanville.com/business-.../2012/id/46782
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Old April 10, 2013, 12:28 PM   #19
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That too is very likely, Freedom Arms is probably where the decision must be made.
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Old April 10, 2013, 12:34 PM   #20
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The issue is simple to me, I refuse to buy a firearm or firearm accessory as a consumer from any manufacturer who refuses to relocate from a staunchly anti gun state that has recently passed oppressive gun control measures. This includes Colorado, New York, and Conn. From the sounds of it NJ, California and some others may soon be on that list as well.

If this were Colorado I could almost see an argument that they have a good chance in the next election to turn the bad gun bills around, but this is New York. the courts may make it a little better in a few years but the antis will just continue to push the limits of the court rulings.

Until Remington agrees to move out of NY I will not be supporting them as a manufacturer. It is a real shame too, one of my next projects was going to be having a "clone" built of my fathers highly customized 60's era Remington 700.

Seriously, I think its time to S&W some of these guys.
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Old April 10, 2013, 12:38 PM   #21
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Got to love the government Maybe I'm seing the numbers wrong but a 80 million dollar contract to make 5 thousand rifles and 5 million bullets . Im no math wiss but that don't sound right . Even if each rifle cost 5k and each bullet cost $10 it sill does not total 80 million .
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Old April 10, 2013, 12:53 PM   #22
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I, personally, don't have a problem with a company making a buisiness decision that makes sense to them... an 80 million dollar contract is nothing to shake a stick at. Not to mention I don't have a problem with a company that doesn't up and leave all its hard working employees with no jobs over fickle politics.

I guess by most responses here, if there should ever be national level gun control laws put into place in-line with some of the recent laws found in some states (not likely, but can happen)... then by these responses, all the gun companies should up and leave the country to show their outrage and go make thier products in some other, more gun freindly country??

I don't know.... seams kind of confusing to me how people feel this is some kind of betrayal.
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Old April 10, 2013, 01:20 PM   #23
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Got to love the government Maybe I'm seing the numbers wrong but a 80 million dollar contract to make 5 thousand rifles and 5 million bullets . Im no math wiss but that don't sound right . Even if each rifle cost 5k and each bullet cost $10 it sill does not total 80 million .
You've got to know how this works and what is being paid for.

Quote:
A ten year, indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity;
For the next ten years they can place orders for as many as they want to be delivered when and where they ask, with the following caveats ....
Quote:
The maximum quantities for this requirement are projected to be 5,150 PSR systems and 4,696,800 rounds of ammunition.
Quote:
firm-fixed-price contract for the purchase of the precision sniper rifle (PSR) system for U.S. Special Operations forces.
The contract almost undoubtedly includes warranty, spare parts, service, and other support requirements.

A warranty issued to you and I for our rifles is not like a warranty issued to the US Special Forces. We don't jump out of airplanes into oceans with our rifle/scope systems. We don't take them to Alaska one month and then bounce to Death Valley the next very often. We rarely ask the manufacturer and then expect him to comply with sending a couple of gunsmiths to Afghanistan awhile to work through an issue we are experiencing.

You might be starting to get the idea why it isn't as simple as it sounds.
The estimated contract value is $79,717,783.
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Old April 10, 2013, 01:44 PM   #24
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Your right and I get all that BUT a $3k rifle and $5 bullets would half that contract . I think you and I know the bullets will and should cost at most $2 each so thats 10 million leaving 70 million for 5 thousand rifles .
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Old April 10, 2013, 02:17 PM   #25
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I got paid over $200K a year for working in Iraq. My work days were over 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, only a 10 day vacation off part way through the year. I was a civilian contractor. I had to be processed for movement in GA., flown and housed there a week, shots, medical exam, dental screening, insurance for a war zone, flown across the ocean, housed, fed, and protected. Then I was flown back and out-processed again for a couple of days.

All that costs a whole lot of money, do it for up to ten years for even 3 or 4 employees and it starts adding up to a whole lot more then a rifle and some bullets.

We would have to know a whole lot more about the contract before we could start justifying outrage at the cost.
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