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Old April 16, 2013, 10:17 PM   #1
tynman
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Bad day for shooting range in NJ

Well its a bad day for NJ with 2A and the shooting range Sure Shot. It is said that around 4 pm today someone went to the range and committed suicide. There is a very small article in the paper about for now.

http://www.app.com/article/20130416/...nclick_check=1

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family.
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Old April 17, 2013, 08:46 AM   #2
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Certainly a bad day for the range (mess to clean up), but this happens fairly often and has nothing to do with the 2A.

For years, many ranges have required that a shooter either a) be with some one else, b) bring their own gun, or c) have a CHL. These tend to decrease the likelihood that you are there to commit suicide.
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Old April 17, 2013, 10:13 AM   #3
tynman
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I think the worse part is that everyone at the range has to give the police there firearms during the investigation.
But this is new to me. I have read threads on here about it but its never been so close to home.
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Old April 17, 2013, 10:17 AM   #4
deepcreek
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That's a bummer...

2 sisters from Australia did that here in Colorado the other year. I feel for people in that state of mind but they should really consider what damage they leave behind for others.
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Old April 17, 2013, 10:21 AM   #5
tynman
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Wow 2 sister's? That's nuts.

The one good thing is they didn't harm anyone else before they did that to themselves.
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Old April 17, 2013, 03:33 PM   #6
ClydeFrog
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Recent suicides...

This is tragic but occurs often across the nation.
Orlando Florida had a event at a downtown range called Oak Ridge Gun Range about 7/8 days ago.
I also read a brief media item that a guy shot himself at the recent NRA 500 NASCAR event.

Anyone in the shooting sports industry or who works around firearms should be alert to any EDPs(emotional disturbed people).
I know $$$ is important but you may see someone who is intoxicated or unstable.
I've been in gun shops before with customers who were clearly drunk & holding firearms.
Thankfully the weapons were unloaded.
The staff & sales clerks should have keyed into that.
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Old April 17, 2013, 03:58 PM   #7
alex0535
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It is next to impossible to determine whether or not someone is about to do something like this in the short time anyone is likely to interact with them.

You ask a depressed person that you do not know very well "are you ok?" they will say "yea i'm ok". But most of the time they are not going to be obvious enough to even make anyone ask anything more than "How's it going?" for any other reason than being polite.

The only way to keep this stuff from happening is keeping ranges so private that everyone there knows each other so well that they know when someone is not in a good place mentally. People just are not so open to go to a gun range and be like "man, my life is falling apart and I just want it to end", certainly if they plan to kill themselves.
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Old April 17, 2013, 08:14 PM   #8
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I disagree...

Doing LE & security details, I can honestly say there can be "cues" or behaviors that a trained person can pick up on re: EDPs.
The NYPD's elite ESU(Emergency Services Unit) even has specially trained cops to address mental health & unstable subjects in critical incidents.

A person can tell if someone is going to harm themselves or others.
I'm not saying you need to be Dr. Phil Magraw or Drew Pensky with everyone you come into contact with but there are behaviors you can spot or be aware of; crying, lack of focus/easily distracted, paranoid or fearful behaviors, talking about people or events in the past tense, sweating a lot, pacing or erratic movements, wierd or inappropriate humor/questions, mood swings, lunges or confrontatational stances when speaking, flushed appearance or reddened skin.

As I posted, these may or may not be present but if they are or you feel unsafe on a gun range, then ACT on it. If no safety officers or staff are there, then leave & contact the non-emergency number/soc media system of the area's sworn LE agency. They can deal with the person & get them mental health treatment if needed.

CF
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Old April 17, 2013, 08:49 PM   #9
David13
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Yes, suicide is a fairly common occurrence.
I think people choose the range as it is an easy way for them to get their hands on guns, and they see it as a logical place for shooting.
In some cases, they are terminally ill and want to end the suffering.
I don't believe those are the ones that are drawn to ranges.

Last edited by Vanya; April 17, 2013 at 08:54 PM. Reason: anecdotes about other forms of suicide are off-topic.
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Old April 17, 2013, 09:13 PM   #10
tynman
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Yeah its a very hard thing to figure out and to help someone. And it has happened to me with friends (not with a shooting range).

Its is said today (I dont have a news paper proving this) but the guy that did this was a NJ state correction officer. He had his own gun but they are saying he went there and rented one. He left behind a wife and a 8 year old child.

I guess we cant know what is going on in other peoples heads and lives to make them do something like that.
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Old April 18, 2013, 09:31 AM   #11
Dashunde
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If I remember correctly its happened three times at The Bullet Hole in KC... three suicides + a murder.

Seems to me that an easy fix for the rental gun suicide problem is to just not rent to people who dont already have a gun (with them).
It doesnt help business, but neither does suicides.
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Old April 18, 2013, 10:03 AM   #12
tynman
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Dashunde I don't know if that would stop anything, cause even if you have your own gun you can do that... But for people without there own and want to take that way out then stopping the rentals might work.
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Old April 18, 2013, 10:25 AM   #13
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A lot of ranges have that rule, and it probably is quite effective, when you consider that people who have their own guns can kill themselves without bothering to go to the range to do it.
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Old April 18, 2013, 05:21 PM   #14
Dashunde
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^ yep.
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Old April 18, 2013, 05:58 PM   #15
ClydeFrog
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Safety briefings, rules, SOPs...

If I owned a small business or range/FFL licensed retail location, Id have SOPs & rules, RE: gun ranges, requirements and/or access control.
If suicides, fights, general misconduct(unsafe acts, horse-play, etc) were a major problem I'd be real strict.
In general, I'd require a renter(customer) have either a US military ID card, a valid concealed carry license(with clear photo), a NRA membership ID card or documented proof of NRA firearms safety training, a US Dept of Veterans Affairs ID card, a valid state DMV issued DL with a US military veterans endorsement(yes, you can get that now, my state does it for honorable discharge veterans for $1.00, ).
I'd have CCTVs & DV systems monitoring the range & lines 24/07/365 too.
Any shooter or customer who refuses to comply with the range SOPs or who becomes hostile/aggressive will be subject to a formal trespass notice by the local LE agency and/or removed from the property.
I'd talk to the PD or Sheriff's office crime prevention office or community services officer & explain exactly what I want to do in these events. I'd also request a formal written policy memo or memorandum of understanding so any disputes or problems can be smoothed over.

CF
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Old April 18, 2013, 06:05 PM   #16
deepcreek
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Quote:
Wow 2 sister's? That's nuts.

The one good thing is they didn't harm anyone else before they did that to themselves.
yeah, they were 29yr old twins, pretty and had money they were just traveling the world. and decide to commit suicide. Strange.. seems like they had it all.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...gun-range.html
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Old April 19, 2013, 11:25 AM   #17
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About the one who survived:
Quote:
The other twin was sitting down with blood in her hair and on back of her head. 'The deputy noticed a gunshot wound in the centre of her forehead', Fox station KDVR reported.
Amazing.
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Old April 19, 2013, 09:18 PM   #18
WiscBuckmaster
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The same thing happened at an indoor range in milwaukee, wisconsin about two weeks ago. Though i have not seen an official report saying it was a suicide, but the article read, a man was killed while on the range from a gunshot wound to the head, it is believed to be self-inflicted. A very sad day and my condolences go out to the family and witnesses who seen the horrific aftermath.
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Old April 21, 2013, 02:55 PM   #19
coldbeer
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In the last year 2 people have rented guns and committed suicide at Top Gun shooting range in Taylor Mi. So now they make you sign more papers than when closing on a home before you shoot and someone is constantly hovering over you as you shoot which makesme nervous. The place has only been open for 2-3 years. On the other hand the indoor range I go to (about 5 miles away from top gun) has been around for 30+ years without any such incidents.
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:24 PM   #20
johnwilliamson062
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Happens somewhere in Ohio at least once a year.
TO some degree it makes sense. At a range you can be fairly certain someone besides a family member will find you AND more importantly that that person will have at least minimal firearms experience.

Sucks for the people working at the range though.
My Dad had two guys commit suicide in units he had been in less than a week. Both gunshots to the head. As the new guy who didn't know them he was charged with cleaning up. Not knowing them doesn't seem to have eliminated the trauma as it clearly still bothers him 50 years later.
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Old April 23, 2013, 10:46 PM   #21
tynman
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John it really sucks. And I know how your father feels cause in my line of work I see a lot of death in many ways. I don't have to clean it up but I have to see it and help them as much as I can. I have gotten very cold to death and try to block out of my head what I have seen. Some people think Im a cold person cause a lot of them don't understand (the outsiders not the people I work with) But in 18 years it has gotten me by with just only a few sleepless nights. But the one thing I never thought that people would go to a range to do it. I just would never think that, but like you said it does make some sense.
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Old April 23, 2013, 11:46 PM   #22
sam colt
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LGS that I worked part time at in the 80s, had a guy come in pick up a used 12ga from the rack, chamber a shell that he brought with him and shot hisself in the head. Real messy. Used long guns were locked up after that.
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:33 AM   #23
BlueEyeVisage
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Actually a range me and my brother frequented had a suicider who also took hostages. Luckily no one but the individual got harmed.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/13/Hi...s_at_Tam.shtml

I also know one of my local walmarts had a man shoot himself with a shotgun in the head in the parking lot. When something like that comes up it really does bring a lot of questions, but it also makes you thankful. Why the Walmart parking lot? I can only think there was a thought to do harm to others. My father's a funeral director and the wake that suicide causes a family is so intense, it is a much different atmosphere at a suicides funeral compared to any other. I will say that the most intense is of course victims of homicide, often times it's women from domestic abuse gone wrong, very sad circumstances that can't be disputed as anything less.
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Old April 24, 2013, 07:34 AM   #24
tynman
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blueeye now that's just crazy cause not only are you affecting the people that saw him do it, but the damage he did to those hostages (mentally). Sometimes mentally is worse then physical damage.
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