The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 17, 2013, 04:58 AM   #1
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 315
Boston: "We have gun powder purchase laws here"

I live in NY and traveled to Mass. on business a few years ago. I tried to buy powder, primers, bullets and brass at a sporting goods store - NO DEAL.

In Mass. you need a state issued ammo purchase license to buy these items.

As a result of the events of this week in Boston, I assume this will become a federal law now.

The gun-grabbers will stop at nothing!
rajbcpa is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 05:22 AM   #2
North East Redneck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 2012
Location: Berkshire Hills
Posts: 529
Its not actually an ammo license. Its one of the three types of gun permits that the state issues. Any of the three will allow you to purchase ammo or parts to make your own. You need a license to buy lead round balls here.
__________________
NRA Life Member
Goal Member
SAF Member

Last edited by North East Redneck; April 17, 2013 at 06:33 AM.
North East Redneck is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 06:46 AM   #3
Dave P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 1999
Location: North Florida
Posts: 1,135
No license required for a pressure cooker???
__________________
... still waiting for that stimulus to kick in ...
Dave P is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 06:50 AM   #4
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
N.E. Redneck - that's a purchase license, correct? Is it also required in order to possess ammunition or ammunition components? In other words, if you drove to another state and stocked up with ammo and reloading components, then drove back home, would you be breaking the law if you didn't have that license?
csmsss is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 07:17 AM   #5
FlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2009
Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley
Posts: 1,513
Quote:
that's a purchase license, correct? Is it also required in order to possess ammunition or ammunition components? In other words, if you drove to another state and stocked up with ammo and reloading components, then drove back home, would you be breaking the law if you didn't have that license?
Purchase or possession - so yes, you would be breaking the law if you purchase ammo or components here in NH (for example) and then return to Massachusetts, unless you have the appropriate license. For that reason, some shops in NH, particularly those near the state line, will ask for proof of NH residency or the correct Mass license when selling ammo, even though they're not legally required to.

The statute is Chapter 140, Section 131 of the Mass. General Laws.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
SASS #84900
Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club
FlyFish is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 07:54 AM   #6
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,473
So I guess this means the law didn't deter the bad guys in Boston?

This is my shocked face!

Next you will tell me that only the law abiding are affected by such laws....

Gregg
tulsamal is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 07:57 AM   #7
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
Quote:
Purchase or possession - so yes, you would be breaking the law if you purchase ammo or components here in NH (for example) and then return to Massachusetts, unless you have the appropriate license. For that reason, some shops in NH, particularly those near the state line, will ask for proof of NH residency or the correct Mass license when selling ammo, even though they're not legally required to.

The statute is Chapter 140, Section 131 of the Mass. General Laws.
So, when that law passed, they created an entire new class of criminals (those possessing ammunition components without a license)? Sweet!
csmsss is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:20 AM   #8
Patriot86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
Unless a federal permit to purchase ammo is passed this will change nothing. Just makes the process of extracting the powder from live cartridges more expensive, time comsuming and generally difficult. Honestly though you can make many other powerful explosives from household items sold at any Walmart or Hardware store. Sad to say, if there is a will there is a way.
__________________
"....The swords of others will set you your limits".
Patriot86 is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:25 AM   #9
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,473
Quote:
Honestly though you can make many other powerful explosives from household items sold at any Walmart or Hardware store. Sad to say, if there is a will there is a way.
"Back in the day," you had to scrounge around to find the Anarchist's Cookbook or Army demo manuals. But with the internet today, the information is right there on your screen. It wouldn't surprise anybody if it turns out the Boston bombers downloaded the "how to" information on bomb making from the internet. Sometimes the bad guys use our freedoms to harm us; doesn't mean we are willing to give up those freedoms.

Gregg
tulsamal is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:25 AM   #10
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 881
After the Oklahoma City bombing they started looking at large fertilizer purchases all over the country. I was wondering why they didn't figure out that gunpowder was an explosive. I'm waiting now for them to limit or restrict loading components. It's going to happen and I think soon.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:29 AM   #11
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,473
Quote:
Unless a federal permit to purchase ammo is passed this will change nothing. Just makes the process of extracting the powder from live cartridges more expensive, time comsuming and generally difficult.
It isn't like it is some huge state surrounded by a mote. Pulling cartridges for smokeless powder would be far less efficient than just driving a few hundred miles to buy "whatever."

Unlike some previous bombers (OKC, earlier World Trade Center bombings) these guys didn't get caught because of some stupid oversight shortly after the event. Maybe they were just lucky but it's possible they are actually smarter than the average bear. People like that probably didn't sit around taking apart cartridges. Very well may not be from the state at all.

Gregg
tulsamal is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:33 AM   #12
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
It does beg the question - at what point does the rational person begin to understand that it is impossible to remove any and all potentially dangerous objects from the world?
csmsss is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:36 AM   #13
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,473
Quote:
I'm waiting now for them to limit or restrict loading components. It's going to happen and I think soon.
There was a lot of talk about putting taggants in powder.

The real reason such restrictions haven't been put in place is that smokeless powder isn't an explosive. It burns, doesn't explode. It is very difficult to make a true bomb with any real power from smokeless powder. Easier with the old fashioned black powder. Which all that white smoke suggests was used here.

With all the wars around the world and all the various terrorist groups, it isn't that hard to get your hands on some kind of military grade explosives. (Look at all the foreign created drugs that are sold on the street.) Even if we are talking about hand grenades or 40mm rifle grenades. Your explosive velocity goes WAY up. The authorities are much more worried about bad guys smuggling in explosives than with some guy in his basement with a couple pounds of Bullseye.

The rules are already different for black powder than smokeless. And there are alternatives to true black powder.... any changes in the laws would probably go that direction.

Gregg
tulsamal is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:38 AM   #14
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near Ohio, Indiana.
Posts: 3,534
Quote:
After the Oklahoma City bombing they started looking at large fertilizer purchases all over the country. I was wondering why they didn't figure out that gunpowder was an explosive.
There are "High Explosives", and "Low Explosives". Gun powders are not High Explosives in that they yield less explosive power than High Explosives (Plastic explosive, Dynamite, TNT, etc.) and therefore are not very efficient in producing bombs. Nevertheless, anti-gun emotionalism will likely produce a move to ban, control, eliminate, license them in light of the recent bombing, if it turns out that gun powder was used in the bombing.
__________________
Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes you only pay more for what you get.
Three shots are not a "group"...they are a "few".

If the Bible is the literal, infallible, unerring word of God...where are all those witches I am supposed to kill?
dahermit is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:40 AM   #15
tulsamal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2004
Location: Vinita, OK
Posts: 2,473
Quote:
at what point does the rational person begin to understand that it is impossible to remove any and all potentially dangerous objects from the world?
Exactly. I have a 40 x 50 shop building that has all kinds of interesting farm equipment in it. Also my reloading stuff. I've told both my kids over the years that the most dangerous "never play with" stuff in there is the gasoline. Several five gallon plastic gas cans are always in there. Gas and diesel and kerosene are available anywhere without anybody even glancing at you. Few additives and some ingenuity and you have something far more dangerous. It was a guy with gasoline that killed all those people in a night club years ago.

Gregg
tulsamal is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 08:53 AM   #16
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 4,029
Let's not go any farther down the road of discussing recipes for explosives. Thank you.
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 09:17 AM   #17
sundog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 1999
Location: Green Country, OK
Posts: 730
tulsamal got it right. As I was reading this thread, I'm thinking 'gasoline'.

Walk up to a pump, put in a card - or better yet go inside and put 10 bucks on pump 2, fill a can (EPA, and several other alphabet agencies, approved, but of course), walk away, and voila --- bomb material. Maybe some diesel, and all that styrofoam you've been saving from all that junk you get from electronic stores and shipped in off the internet.

How stupid it is too try to restrict all these products that can hurt people.

Bottom line is, 'do a crime - do the time'. A lot of time, severely, and swiftly to justice.
__________________
safety first
sundog is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 09:39 AM   #18
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 315
I have seen many news reports that say the investigators believe that smokeless gun powder was used in Boston.

When the video is played there is a large cloud of white smoke, so I was assuming it was black powder too.
rajbcpa is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 09:48 AM   #19
jimpeel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,488
The ridiculous has begun.

How anyone equates a bombing with firearms and the Second Amendment is beyond me. Perhaps a Mohron might.

SOURCE

Quote:
Actor blames Boston attack on gun culture: ’2nd amendment must go’
4:06 PM 04/16/2013

Actor and comedian Jay Mohr waded into the gun debate on Twitter after Monday’s deadly terrorist attacks at the Boston Marathon.

“What bothers me most about today is that we’re getting used 2 it. ENOUGH. 2nd amendment must go. Violence has 2 stop. Culture MUST change,” the Jerry Maguire actor tweeted Monday night.

<MORE>
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
jimpeel is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 10:18 AM   #20
mayosligo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 301
Boston: "We have gun powder purchase laws here"

Strange that these experts could suggest that gunpowder would be used. They know it was not or they are just being puppeteered.
mayosligo is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 10:21 AM   #21
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 315
Gun-grabber Mitt Romney signed the Mass ammo purchase restrictions into law....

I suspect we would be loosing our gun rights if Mitty was in the white house...

It was a very bad choice in November....
rajbcpa is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 01:01 PM   #22
Bart Noir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2000
Location: Puget Sound, USA
Posts: 1,667
Will Boston Bombing increase restrictions on BP?

The title says it all.

At this time, I haven't seen that the actual explosives used in the bombs were or were not BP.

If it was BP (lots of white smoke on the scene, after all), I fear hysterical laws and regulations that will further restrict the buying of BP.

Am I being prescient or ridiculous?

Bart Noir
__________________
“There’s a rattle in my glove box,
A Federal twelve-gauge slug.” – Adam Carroll in song Porter Wagoner
Bart Noir is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 01:20 PM   #23
woodnbow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2012
Posts: 129
Let's hope not...

But I wouldn't bet against restrictions... Hell, at some point I fully expect to have to produce a card to purchase ammo or components.
woodnbow is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 01:38 PM   #24
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,745
I hope I'm wrong !!

Quote:
If it was BP (lots of white smoke on the scene, after all), I fear hysterical laws and regulations that will further restrict the buying of BP.
I too had these thoughts and have seen enough BP smoke to be suspicious. I too fear that it will have some effect. It's only a matter of time and attention before the gun grabbers sink their fangs into this one. .....

Be Safe !!!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.
Pahoo is offline  
Old April 17, 2013, 01:39 PM   #25
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,765
Quote:
Am I being prescient or ridiculous?
Yes.

Wait a month and we might actually have some reliable information by then. I said, "might".
mykeal is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13676 seconds with 7 queries